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WYOBISONMAN

Carlson To University System:

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Seriously!!!! You do have to wonder if this guy is alright . He just might need to get some medical attention. Sooner than later. It is not even funny anymore.

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Seriously!!!! You do have to wonder if this guy is alright . He just might need to get some medical attention. Sooner than later. It is not even funny anymore.

He is getting press, which is what all politicians covet. However, he can't see that most people, including Sioux name supporters, think he has lost it.

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What he thinks has no bearing on this anymore.

That's my thinking too. NDUS is allowing UND to get the ball rolling on this "if" the repeal does in fact get approved in November. If the overwhelming sentiment in the legislature is that the law stay intact ( the death knell for UND athletics IMHO), the transition can be easily halted again. But to insist that UND wait until they make up their mind and start a potential transition flatfooted is ridiculous. Unless... you're an NDSU guy who has no actual concern for what happens to UND athletics in the first place, and whose new found appreciation for the voice of American Indians to be heard is as genuine as his concern for Fighting Sioux athletics. Rep. Carlson's been using a popular wedge issue (UND nickname) to score political points against NDUS. That's his target plain and simple. And if UND athletics becomes collateral damage in that pursuit, so be it! That's not right! I'm tired of my alma mater's athletic program being used as a tool or a pawn in his political game with NDUS.

I think it's far more important for UND to show the Big Sky Conference that it is serious about addressing the conference's concerns than it is to pussyfoot around with Legislators (Carlson, Schatz, et. al.) so we can placate their egos, their self-inflated importance and their political aspirations.

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Since 1, the law is unconstitutional, as the SBoHE has direct control over the colleges, not the legislature and 2, there is no penalty for violating this supposed state law, go ahead and spew all you want Al. The more you talk the more foolish you look.

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Since 1, the law is unconstitutional, as the SBoHE has direct control over the colleges, not the legislature and 2, there is no penalty for violating this supposed state law, go ahead and spew all you want Al. The more you talk the more foolish you look.

I agree. Carlson reminds me of a child who's beating his little fists on the floor to get some attention. People in his district should be ashamed of him and the mess he created, and refuses to help clean up.

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This confirms that the bozo was only interested in making headlines, not really concerned about the true issue!

Let's bombard him with our thoughts about his handling of all of this. His e-mail address is: acarlson@nd.gov

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This confirms that the bozo was only interested in making headlines, not really concerned about the true issue!

Let's bombard him with our thoughts about his handling of all of this. His e-mail address is: acarlson@nd.gov

The thing is if you do send an e-mail don't expect any form of response, (Unless your extremely classy and threaten him in your e-mai. Than it will be front page news and your response will be from the highway patrol. :lol: )

I live in Carlson's district and sent him an e-mail before the original vote expressing my concerns as an alumni and former athlete. Didn't get a response via e-mail so I tried placing a phone call and low and behold my message was not returned. I urge people to write well thought out e-mails but don't expect any form of return correspondance unless you are holding a pen or a microphone and can get him some media attention. It really shows what his intentions are in my mind.

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Far be it from me to defend a Bison grad, but Carlson's letter is reasonable and prudent. You are all acting like scared little sorority girls fearful that the Fall Mixer is going to be cancelled. Get a grip. If anything, he's providing cover for the administrative blunders and delays sure to come from our BoHE and UND elite as they move through this process. No one is losing any ground on this. The message is simple: comply with the law, or at least feign compliance for cripes sake, until such time that it is repealed.

I suggest calm through heavy sedation. It will all be sorted out. Then we can get on to the business of picking a lame new nickname and logo that most everyone hates, all so we can enjoy D-1/FCS obscurity, low attendance, falling revenues, and rising budgets to be resolved by tax increases.

As Sowell's Unconstrained Vision theory would predict, the only people that will end up being satisfied in all of this are the NCAA Executives and University Elites.

taz

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Far be it from me to defend a Bison grad, but Carlson's letter is reasonable and prudent. You are all acting like scared little sorority girls fearful that the Fall Mixer is going to be cancelled. Get a grip. If anything, he's providing cover for the administrative blunders and delays sure to come from our BoHE and UND elite as they move through this process. No one is losing any ground on this. The message is simple: comply with the law, or at least feign compliance for cripes sake, until such time that it is repealed.

I suggest calm through heavy sedation. It will all be sorted out. Then we can get on to the business of picking a lame new nickname and logo that most everyone hates, all so we can enjoy D-1/FCS obscurity, low attendance, falling revenues, and rising budgets to be resolved by tax increases.

As Sowell's Unconstrained Vision theory would predict, the only people that will end up being satisfied in all of this are the NCAA Executives and University Elites.

taz

Or we could follow the galactically stupid Al Carlson and have no conference for the majority of our sports, be black balled by other institutions, play Mayville on a regular basis, see falling attendance, falling enrollment, less in donations and generally abandon the idea of having an athletic department.

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Or we could follow the galactically stupid Al Carlson and have no conference for the majority of our sports, be black balled by other institutions, play Mayville on a regular basis, see falling attendance, falling enrollment, less in donations and generally abandon the idea of having an athletic department.

Oh heavens me, GeauxSioux! You must be one of those "scared little sorority girls." :silly: How dare you inject a little pragmatism into this thread? ;)

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Since 1, the law is unconstitutional, as the SBoHE has direct control over the colleges, not the legislature and 2, there is no penalty for violating this supposed state law, go ahead and spew all you want Al. The more you talk the more foolish you look.

Actually, until a court of law declares it unconstitutional, it isn't. Carlson is right in that the University should not be moving forward with actual actions to retire the Fighting Sioux name. They should be moving ahead with developing plans on the course of action to be followed if the law is repealed. If UND were to move ahead with any specific action retiring the name at this point, they open themselves up to a lawsuit by anyone and everyone that they are violating state law. That would waste more money and resources and create more employment for lawyers. Plan to be able to move ahead, but do not execute anything until the law is actually changed. Whether or not you support the law is immaterial. Moving ahead prematurely could just create a whole new set of issues and costs. As individuals and institutions we are not at liberty to choose which laws to obey.

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Actually, until a court of law declares it unconstitutional, it isn't. Carlson is right in that the University should not be moving forward with actual actions to retire the Fighting Sioux name. They should be moving ahead with developing plans on the course of action to be followed if the law is repealed. If UND were to move ahead with any specific action retiring the name at this point, they open themselves up to a lawsuit by anyone and everyone that they are violating state law. That would waste more money and resources and create more employment for lawyers. Plan to be able to move ahead, but do not execute anything until the law is actually changed. Whether or not you support the law is immaterial. Moving ahead prematurely could just create a whole new set of issues and costs. As individuals and institutions we are not at liberty to choose which laws to obey.

I think this would be the constitutional crisis that many of the lawyers on this message board have talked about...

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Actually, until a court of law declares it unconstitutional, it isn't. Carlson is right in that the University should not be moving forward with actual actions to retire the Fighting Sioux name. They should be moving ahead with developing plans on the course of action to be followed if the law is repealed. If UND were to move ahead with any specific action retiring the name at this point, they open themselves up to a lawsuit by anyone and everyone that they are violating state law. That would waste more money and resources and create more employment for lawyers. Plan to be able to move ahead, but do not execute anything until the law is actually changed. Whether or not you support the law is immaterial. Moving ahead prematurely could just create a whole new set of issues and costs. As individuals and institutions we are not at liberty to choose which laws to obey.

I think hims got his feeling hurt....

“I’m hearing from a lot of people who say, ‘They put it right in your face, didn’t they?’ I don’t know if that was their intent, but that’s what they did.”

As to UND’s statement that officials have only started planning for a transition, Carlson said, “Technically, they can’t even start the planning if they follow the law.”

Siouxman, actually, Al doesn't even want anyone "planning".

Carlson: Pre-special session resumption of Sioux nickname transition 'slap in face' of N.D. Legislature

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Actually, until a court of law declares it unconstitutional, it isn't. Carlson is right in that the University should not be moving forward with actual actions to retire the Fighting Sioux name. They should be moving ahead with developing plans on the course of action to be followed if the law is repealed. If UND were to move ahead with any specific action retiring the name at this point, they open themselves up to a lawsuit by anyone and everyone that they are violating state law. That would waste more money and resources and create more employment for lawyers. Plan to be able to move ahead, but do not execute anything until the law is actually changed. Whether or not you support the law is immaterial. Moving ahead prematurely could just create a whole new set of issues and costs. As individuals and institutions we are not at liberty to choose which laws to obey.

Really? I don't recall seeing a private right of action in the legislation, nor do I see any other enforcement mechanism. Just because a law is "violated" doesn't mean some private citizen, or butt-hurt legislator, can unilaterally move to enforce it. The only person who can really do anything under the law is the AG, and that's only explore the possiblity of legal action against the NC$$.

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Actually, until a court of law declares it unconstitutional, it isn't. Carlson is right in that the University should not be moving forward with actual actions to retire the Fighting Sioux name. They should be moving ahead with developing plans on the course of action to be followed if the law is repealed. If UND were to move ahead with any specific action retiring the name at this point, they open themselves up to a lawsuit by anyone and everyone that they are violating state law. That would waste more money and resources and create more employment for lawyers. Plan to be able to move ahead, but do not execute anything until the law is actually changed. Whether or not you support the law is immaterial. Moving ahead prematurely could just create a whole new set of issues and costs. As individuals and institutions we are not at liberty to choose which laws to obey.

Actually, you are right. UND should not be moving forward with "actual actions" to retire the Fighting Sioux name. And, lo and behold, that's exactly what it's not doing. (I hope that makes sense)

You are also correct in that UND should be moving ahead with developing plans on the course of action to be followed if the law is repealed. Oh, again, that is exactly what UND appears to be doing.

Ah hell, let's just let UND President Kelley's own words speak for themselves:

"Following a meeting last Friday between North Dakota officials and the leadership of the National Collegiate Athletic Association, the State Board of Higher Education held a teleconference meeting today and instructed me to resume the process of planning the retirement of the nickname and logo consistent with prior Board action. The State Board of higher education extended the deadline to complete that process through December 2011. I will resume the planning process, mindful of the state law which, as of Aug. 1, directs the University of North Dakota to continue to use our nickname and logo. Gov. Jack Dalrymple has indicated that he will urge the North Dakota Legislature to readdress that law in the special session of the North Dakota Legislature planned for November."

So, it appears that the only thing that UND is doing/has done is put out a statement saying that it will restart the PLANNING PROCESS for retirement of the name, being mindful of the existence of the state law, which is exactly what you are condoning as well, unless I am misunderstanding you.

As far as what Al is objecting to can probably only be explained by Al. :lol:

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The law says the name is "Fighting Sioux".

Planning for a transition to a different moniker isn't illegal. Actions to implement the plan are, specifically, actually changing the moniker probably. Then again, what's the punishment for breaking that law?

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The law says the name is "Fighting Sioux".

Planning for a transition to a different moniker isn't illegal. Actions to implement the plan are, specifically, actually changing the moniker probably. Then again, what's the punishment for breaking that law?

I believe they could be required to pay back any money spent illegally. I'm not sure on the specific mechanism.

Regarding the "constitutional crisis." While the Board of Higher Education undoubtedly has administrative control they do have to follow state law the same as any other state agency.

As to my own opinion I'm glad that the state legislature acted on respecting the wishes of the people of North Dakota as well as the wishes of the Spirit Lake tribe. I don't think there was a single issue that generated as much support this spring as that.

Undoubtedly it was too little too late, but it was worth a try.

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