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2 hours ago, RogerRoger12 said:

Serious question, not questioning anything about the program, but is there that much hockey talent in the area to make UND a real contender?  Just seems like a lot of guys from the area, when I am guessing with our recruiting budget we could get players from anywhere.  Again, just a question, want to hear thoughts..

Every local player that has committed recently is a top tier talent around the entire continent. Could they hit a ceiling prior college?  Sure.  But every college team would be looking at them.

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With Frisch, Kunz, Kleven, (I might be missing someone) there's going to be a lot of local talent in the coming years.

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1 minute ago, Sodbuster said:

With Frisch, Kunz, Kleven, (I might be missing someone) there's going to be a lot of local talent in the coming years.

Caufield, Montgomery, Radklev,  Johnson

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26 minutes ago, SIOUXELEVENS said:

Caufield, Montgomery, Radklev,  Johnson

Geez, I missed a bunch!

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3 hours ago, RogerRoger12 said:

Serious question, not questioning anything about the program, but is there that much hockey talent in the area to make UND a real contender?  Just seems like a lot of guys from the area, when I am guessing with our recruiting budget we could get players from anywhere.  Again, just a question, want to hear thoughts..

There are some very talented local kids - best guess is that this is somewhat a response to numerous articles about local kids on other teams playing in the tournament and many posts here about our local dead weight.  In which case - great.  At least he is trying to change something.  Hopefully our scouting is more accurate than it has been in the past few years.

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1 minute ago, Irish said:

There are some very talented local kids - best guess is that this is somewhat a response to numerous articles about local kids on other teams playing in the tournament and many posts here about our local dead weight.  In which case - great.  At least he is trying to change something.  Hopefully our scouting is more accurate than it has been in the past few years.

Agreed.  But these particular kids that recently committed are very "high end" for their age.  Benson, Lizotte, etc were very good kids locally.  But they definitely were not at the level these 3 were at the same age.  Apples and oranges.  These three kids were either committing here....or some other big school

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10 minutes ago, scpa0305 said:

Agreed.  But these particular kids that recently committed are very "high end" for their age.  Benson, Lizotte, etc were very good kids locally.  But they definitely were not at the level these 3 were at the same age.  Apples and oranges.  These three kids were either committing here....or some other big school

I trust your evaluation - then this is really good news.  We need high end talent every year.

 

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1 hour ago, scpa0305 said:

Agreed.  But these particular kids that recently committed are very "high end" for their age.  Benson, Lizotte, etc were very good kids locally.  But they definitely were not at the level these 3 were at the same age.  Apples and oranges.  These three kids were either committing here....or some other big school

seems like the extension of this conversation should address why did Benson, Lizotte, Spooner, Rauhauser, Ward   develope into superior players elsewhere while Casey Johnson, Dixon Bowen, Zach Yon...   come here to languish..

 

Pardon me if names should be removed, inserted, etc     but the premise is the same...  why are the top of local players at the collegiate level not here and vice versa,    this is not a reflection on the newly committed young men, hats off to them for their current and future endeavors

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53 minutes ago, 90siouxfan said:

seems like the extension of this conversation should address why did Benson, Lizotte, Spooner, Rauhauser, Ward   develope into superior players elsewhere while Casey Johnson, Dixon Bowen, Zach Yon...   come here to languish..

 

Pardon me if names should be removed, inserted, etc     but the premise is the same...  why are the top of local players at the collegiate level not here and vice versa,    this is not a reflection on the newly committed young men, hats off to them for their current and future endeavors

That is a whole separate debate :)

you probably have to assess what type of players they were.  We’re they full scholly type players?  I doubt it. They were brought in as role players. Also, benson and lizotte are role players as well.  Good ones, but they’re role players who are currently going to the Coast. Not a knock on them at all.  Just stating facts.

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, 90siouxfan said:

seems like the extension of this conversation should address why did Benson, Lizotte, Spooner, Rauhauser, Ward   develope into superior players elsewhere while Casey Johnson, Dixon Bowen, Zach Yon...   come here to languish..

 

Pardon me if names should be removed, inserted, etc     but the premise is the same...  why are the top of local players at the collegiate level not here and vice versa,    this is not a reflection on the newly committed young men, hats off to them for their current and future endeavors

In my opinion that is the million dollar question about our program.  Even though we have some nice recruits, to have our leading goal scorer at 10 goals raises some red flags as does general player development.  There is no way that year after year Duluth and St. Clown should have much more talent up front. 

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1 hour ago, 90siouxfan said:

seems like the extension of this conversation should address why did Benson, Lizotte, Spooner, Rauhauser, Ward   develope into superior players elsewhere while Casey Johnson, Dixon Bowen, Zach Yon...   come here to languish..

 

Pardon me if names should be removed, inserted, etc     but the premise is the same...  why are the top of local players at the collegiate level not here and vice versa,    this is not a reflection on the newly committed young men, hats off to them for their current and future endeavors

By what definition are you saying superior? Lizotte has a 46 career points and he's done, Benson 56 and he's done (Had 7 as a senior). Rauhauser, he's been very good, but would you take him over any of our current defensemen? I wouldn't. Great numbers in the WCHA and yes, I'm denigrating the competition. Johnson, Bowen and Yon all came into this program as non-scholly roleplayers. I just don't understand why people thought these guys were going to light up the league. Bowen feels like he could/should have taken a step, but he's not a stud. He's a roleplayer.

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17 minutes ago, stoneySIOUX said:

By what definition are you saying superior? Lizotte has a 46 career points and he's done, Benson 56 and he's done (Had 7 as a senior). Rauhauser, he's been very good, but would you take him over any of our current defensemen? I wouldn't. Great numbers in the WCHA and yes, I'm denigrating the competition. Johnson, Bowen and Yon all came into this program as non-scholly roleplayers. I just don't understand why people thought these guys were going to light up the league. Bowen feels like he could/should have taken a step, but he's not a stud. He's a roleplayer.

I'm fairly certain that internal folks knew that would be the expectation.  Did well at single A but never quite caught up.  Struggled in juniors from an offensive standpoint.  I'm not sure how he did on the PK last year (numbers wise) but from the eye test he does well in that role.  I'm hoping he can put up anywhere from 13-18 pts next year.

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38 minutes ago, stoneySIOUX said:

Bowen feels like he could/should have taken a step, but he's not a stud. He's a roleplayer.

Bowen's role:

NastyRareIndianspinyloach-size_restricte

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1 hour ago, stoneySIOUX said:

By what definition are you saying superior? Lizotte has a 46 career points and he's done, Benson 56 and he's done (Had 7 as a senior). Rauhauser, he's been very good, but would you take him over any of our current defensemen? I wouldn't. Great numbers in the WCHA and yes, I'm denigrating the competition. Johnson, Bowen and Yon all came into this program as non-scholly roleplayers. I just don't understand why people thought these guys were going to light up the league. Bowen feels like he could/should have taken a step, but he's not a stud. He's a roleplayer.

Yes.

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19 minutes ago, scpa0305 said:

Yes.

That's fair. Whom? And whom would he replace?

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4 minutes ago, stoneySIOUX said:

That's fair. Whom? And whom would he replace?

I don't feel the need to name names...but quite a few of them.  Pretty high end kid if you ask me.  His numbers are eye popping in a low scoring "clutch and grab" league.  Over the last three years he's also +52 (and I'm guessing he plays a lot).  Maybe I should ask you....who doesn't he play over? :)

In all seriousness I fully understand why he's not here and why we wouldn't have recruited him.

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1 minute ago, scpa0305 said:

I don't feel the need to name names...but quite a few of them.  Pretty high end kid if you ask me.  His numbers are eye popping in a low scoring "clutch and grab" league.  Over the last three years he's also +52 (and I'm guessing he plays a lot).  Maybe I should ask you....who doesn't he play over? :)

In all seriousness I fully understand why he's not here and why we wouldn't have recruited him.

I already told you I wouldn't take him over any of our current... well, I guess I could clarify... any of our who I think will be Top 6 defensemen coming this year.

This isn't necessarily ripping on him. He's a very good player. It's more so props for a tremendous pipeline we have right now, IMO. 

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2 hours ago, stoneySIOUX said:

By what definition are you saying superior? Lizotte has a 46 career points and he's done, Benson 56 and he's done (Had 7 as a senior).

Please don't bring facts and statistics into the conversation.  We all know that scsu coaches developed these players into elite scoring machines and Berry missed the boat by not recruiting them.  

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35 minutes ago, stoneySIOUX said:

I already told you I wouldn't take him over any of our current... well, I guess I could clarify... any of our who I think will be Top 6 defensemen coming this year.

This isn't necessarily ripping on him. He's a very good player. It's more so props for a tremendous pipeline we have right now, IMO. 

Is AR even going back next year?  6’3” athlete that puts up huge numbers in college.  He’s gotta be gone. I’m comparing him to what he could have given us this year or next, not comparing him to a pipeline.  

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37 minutes ago, Rick said:

Please don't bring facts and statistics into the conversation.  We all know that scsu coaches developed these players into elite scoring machines and Berry missed the boat by not recruiting them.  

Speaking of stats and facts - according to NCHC overall scoring stats, St. Cloud has 8 players (count em, 8) who had more points than our leading scorer.  So I do wonder where that silly idea started. 

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The stats speak for themselves, we are getting just as good hockey players as any other team in the nation as recruits. It comes down to taking a very talented player and being able to take that players ability to the next level and make a team that is able to succeed, not just 5 skaters on the ice. That seems to be the problem as of late in my opinion.

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10 hours ago, scpa0305 said:

Every local player that has committed recently is a top tier talent around the entire continent. Could they hit a ceiling prior college?  Sure.  But every college team would be looking at them.

I don't think its outside reality for the local three who just verbaled to all make the USDT in the next few years.  I think if they all stay healthy they'll be good if not great college players. 

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2 minutes ago, Siouxlite said:

The stats speak for themselves, we are getting just as good hockey players as any other team in the nation as recruits. It comes down to taking a very talented player and being able to take that players ability to the next level and make a team that is able to succeed, not just 5 skaters on the ice. That seems to be the problem as of late in my opinion.

I 100 percent agree. Just read a recent article proclaiming UND to have the best recruiting classes from '17-'19. The Sioux will be back in no time.

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Also keep an eye out for Sioux Lite on the podcast app as we are developing a bar style conversation podcast focusing on UND athletics, primarily hockey

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15 hours ago, Rick said:

Please don't bring facts and statistics into the conversation.  We all know that scsu coaches developed these players into elite scoring machines and Berry missed the boat by not recruiting them.  

 

14 hours ago, Irish said:

Speaking of stats and facts - according to NCHC overall scoring stats, St. Cloud has 8 players (count em, 8) who had more points than our leading scorer.  So I do wonder where that silly idea started. 

@Irish I think Rick's comment is more to the point that Benson & Lizzote are being brought up like they were gods and the only UND players mentioned in that conversation are guys some feel under perform - meaning they aren't brought up when we're talking about one of the Poolman brothers or Ladue.  St. C has had some elites recently (mostly former Force players that end up in LA), but they weren't "local" kids.  The locals they have pulled haven't been the 5 star variety at the time they committed.

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