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WSJ: Oil Booms in North Dakota

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21 minutes ago, Old Fella said:

Happy to see the 'no politics' is no longer being enforced.

It is important, with all that is happening in the white house, that all 'cult' members have a place to vent their fustrations/anger

Politics? What does being mentally incompetent have to do with politics? Oh wait......nevermind. :lol:

But don't worry Old Fella you'll still get your check(s).

#thoseunwillingtowork

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Now back to the thread. How many decades has the goal of the US been to be fossil fuel independent yet once achieved, which the US is, we're going to scrap those fuels altogether?

 

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14 minutes ago, Oxbow6 said:

Politics? What does being mentally incompetent have to do with politics? Oh wait......nevermind. :lol:

But don't worry Old Fella you'll still get your check(s).

#thoseunwillingtowork

You Win.

Funny you should mention 'mentally incompetent'

Cult members are very familiar with that affliction.

Tell me more about the checks/sounds interesting.

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The whole state of North Dakota can shut down if the Green New Deal gets implemented.

Cars would all go Electric and electrics are just totally inefficient in the winter at below freezing (never mind at -30)

Tractors would all have to be electric too.  The battery packs woud be enormous and cost a fortune.

Cattle would all have to be sold off until a non farting one is developed.  But people would be forced to become vegans.

All buildings would be torn down and new energy efficient ones built.  Sod huts may be allowed.

All flights for the proletariat would be disallowed until an electric plane is introduced.  The high speed trains tracks built wouldn’t be for rural areas.  Hawaii would have to build tunnels under the ocean for the high speed trains to keep tourism.

The oil fields would be shut down.

The only silver lining is that the state would have high density wind towers exporting power elsewhere.  That way LM Glas Fiber can import more Somalis to build their blades.

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11 minutes ago, SiouxVolley said:

The whole state of North Dakota can shut down if the Green New Deal gets implemented.

Cars would all go Electric and electrics are just totally inefficient in the winter at below freezing (never mind at -30)

Tractors would all have to be electric too.  The battery packs woud be enormous and cost a fortune.

Cattle would all have to be sold off until a non farting one is developed.  But people would be forced to become vegans.

All buildings would be torn down and new energy efficient ones built.  Sod huts may be allowed.

All flights for the proletariat would be disallowed until an electric plane is introduced.  The high speed trains tracks built wouldn’t be for rural areas.  Hawaii would have to build tunnels under the ocean for the high speed trains to keep tourism.

The oil fields would be shut down.

The only silver lining is that the state would have high density wind towers exporting power elsewhere.  That way LM Glas Fiber can import more Somalis to build their blades.

And the Sun will come up in the west.

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10 minutes ago, Old Fella said:

And the Sun will come up in the west.

But there will be a user tax on that too if one reads the fine print

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16 hours ago, Oxbow6 said:

Now back to the thread. How many decades has the goal of the US been to be fossil fuel independent yet once achieved, which the US is, we're going to scrap those fuels altogether?

 

The goal of the U.S. was to make it to the moon.  They achieved that goal, but times change and it doesn't make sense to continue to keep that as your goal.

Same with energy.  You don't need to scrap those fuels all together right now, but you need to supplement it with something that is sustainable.  A couple hundred miles from me, a city that was built 400 years ago is going to be destroyed because of the push for coal mining.  That makes zero sense.  You don't need to expand the use of fossil fuels, every country should be expanding the use of renewable energy and working toward making that sustainable.

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Cut the politics. With this thread, some political proposals will have an effect on the future of the western nd oil patch. Go ahead and discuss those proposals in an educated manner, without taking personal/political shots at the individual(s) behind the proposals.

- Moderators

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On 2/9/2019 at 1:41 PM, darell1976 said:

We finally get the bullet train to run between Fargo and GF. 

giphy.gif

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Because of the elimination of flatulent bovines there'll be less need for feed grains. And less need for grasslands for grazing. 

That's good because elimination of fossil fuels means we'll need the space for solar panels. 

My rough calcs say we'll need 18 sq miles of panels just to replace Coal Creek Station at Underwood (assumes 200W per meter panels, 50% density to allow for infrastructure, and 4x the number of panels due to just 6 productive hours per day, and on site storage capacity for 18 hours of electricity*). 

But remember, all the cars and transportation will now be non-fossil fuel. That too will have to be electric. So you're going to need another "Coal Creek" just for transportation conversion to electric. At least. 

 

*Such storage tech doesn't exist today at this 1.2 gigawatt scale. 

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12 minutes ago, The Sicatoka said:

Because of the elimination of flatulent bovines there'll be less need for feed grains. And less need for grasslands for grazing. 

That's good because elimination of fossil fuels means we'll need the space for solar panels. 

My rough calcs say we'll need 18 sq miles of panels just to replace Coal Creek Station at Underwood (assumes 200W per meter panels, 50% density to allow for infrastructure, and 4x the number of panels due to just 6 productive hours per day, and on site storage capacity for 18 hours of electricity*). 

But remember, all the cars and transportation will now be non-fossil fuel. That too will have to be electric. So you're going to need another "Coal Creek" just for transportation conversion to electric. At least. 

 

*Such storage tech doesn't exist today at this 1.2 gigawatt scale. 

I assume this would include Bison flatulent.  Not all bad.  At least it would quit stinking up SS.

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Williston District 8 will probably allow a vote on a new high school, as Williston district #1, the city district, has voted in the past to not accept their students in the future anymore.  That puts some District #8 parents in a panic.  A new #8 HS would push Dickinson for size, which is contemplating building too.

https://www.willistonherald.com/news/district-board-voting-tuesday-on-whether-to-hold-bond-referendum/article_cc0b7ae2-3631-11e9-a6d3-734416fb66a7.html

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5c6b139143eb5.image.jpg?resize=400,335

So where would they put the new high school? District 8 is a mess. 

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Should be 13 mile corner north

can pull from many dircetions

 

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On 11/29/2018 at 4:35 PM, SiouxVolley said:

If some company finally takes the multi billion dollar plunge on an ethane cracker plant near Williston, that area would have double barreled growth again and Williston/Watford City could even grow so much they touch each other.  Ethane is plentiful but now it’s more profitable to crack it in Texas, so Houston’s chemical industry doesn’t stop growing because it has the needed feedstocks from all the increased nat gas fields nearby.  Ethane and propane cracking happen in the North like Calgary and Edmonton, which have downstream chemical industries, so Williston is not out of the question.  Ethane cannot continue to be pushed into the methane stream (nat gas) without causing safety problems at the consumer and it can’t be economically pipeline transported from the Bakken to Texas.

Europe is building a new cracker with Ethane from the Marcellus, which is already scheduled to supply a new cracker near Pittsburgh. The Bakken’s problem is that it is landlocked, so the finished products are harder to deliver.

http://www.timesonline.com/news/20180507/residents-of-potter-township-reflect-on-living-with-shell-cracker-plant

https://www.naturalgasintel.com/articles/114943-ineos-says-new-european-ethane-cracker-to-benefit-from-us-natural-gas

Williston will never be that big. Never. We may see a ethane plant in ND one day but nothing will make Williston grow to anymore than a Fargo size.

lets keep these outrageous conspiracy theories in the UND to FBS thread.....

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On 11/29/2018 at 7:32 PM, SiouxVolley said:

Highway 85 filled with businesses doesn’t seem to far down the pipe.  Oil and chemical service businesses need a lot of frontage space.  Alexander and Arnegaard are between them and Williston likely wouldn’t annex in McKenzie County.

If a downstream chemical industry materializes, high paying jobs will be plentiful.  The Gulf Coast roads frontage road  even in Alabama are filled for miles.  Hardly means it is settled for miles outside the highway.

Do you even work in the oil industry? I find you comments way off base. Do you even know where a majority of the ethane produced in the state goes?

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15 minutes ago, Sioux>Bison said:

Do you even work in the oil industry? I find you comments way off base. Do you even know where a majority of the ethane produced in the state goes?

The vast majority of ethane is passed into the methane in a nat gas pipeline and is never separated.  Hess has an Ethane pipeline from its gas plant that in Tioga feeds to a ethane cracker in Alberta.    I’m far more competent to talk about ethane than almost anyone here.  Ethane prices have been going up and more cracker plants are being built.  North Dakota will probably be the last spot that ethane crackers will be built but there is too much value in ethane to let it be burned with the methane stream.  Ethane in a nat gas pipeline is dangerous at concentration and will eventually need to be separated, which costs megabucks.

Ethane is making Pittsburgh and the Ohio Valley having major growth thoughts, which is also possible for Williston. Shell is building a multi billion ethane cracker west of Pittsburgh, and more are coming in that region, which are sending those economic advisors orgasmic.  Ethane liquid streams are now being exported to Europe and Asia because they have so much value compared to simple burning as a ng stream.

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Speaking about methane gas.....what about all the farting cows?

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11 hours ago, SiouxVolley said:

The vast majority of ethane is passed into the methane in a nat gas pipeline and is never separated.  Hess has an Ethane pipeline from its gas plant that in Tioga feeds to a ethane cracker in Alberta.    I’m far more competent to talk about ethane than almost anyone here.  Ethane prices have been going up and more cracker plants are being built.  North Dakota will probably be the last spot that ethane crackers will be built but there is too much value in ethane to let it be burned with the methane stream.  Ethane in a nat gas pipeline is dangerous at concentration and will eventually need to be separated, which costs megabucks.

Ethane is making Pittsburgh and the Ohio Valley having major growth thoughts, which is also possible for Williston. Shell is building a multi billion ethane cracker west of Pittsburgh, and more are coming in that region, which are sending those economic advisors orgasmic.  Ethane liquid streams are now being exported to Europe and Asia because they have so much value compared to simple burning as a ng stream.

How are you far more competent than anyone else on here? That’s a pretty arrogant statement.

No one is arguing that ethane is not valuable and won’t be separated from the natural gas. Ethane will not boom the Williston region like you are predicting. It will be shipped out on pipelines such as the Alliance and Oneok pipelines.

 

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12 minutes ago, Sioux>Bison said:

It will be shipped out on pipelines such as the Alliance and Oneok pipelines.

Going back to what I said in the GF Economy thread, that's a mistake: Quit shipping out raw resources; do the value added manufacturing here (make that money too) and ship out that product. 

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4 hours ago, Oxbow6 said:

Speaking about methane gas.....what about all the farting cows?

When did the Bison cheer team enter the conversation?

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14 hours ago, Sioux>Bison said:

Do you even work in the oil industry? I find you comments way off base. Do you even know where a majority of the ethane produced in the state goes?

Find your comments pure baloney.  My profession designs huge chemical plants and used to work for two companies that owned crackers, which are the forerunners of the chemical industry.  A man wants to develop the ethane industry in ND and has tied down many feedstocks from the oil companies.  He just needs billions on capital and cooperation from midstream companies like ONEOk.  The same thing just happened in Pennsylvania,  Ohio, and WV, which has has methane cracker plants under construction for the first time.  It takes years to get the resources and facilities tied down.  Used to live near a plant site that is under consideration by a South Korean company.  Shell is building one right now east of Pittsburgh.  Ethane is the most direct and affordable route, as much of the world used to use naphta.

So exactly what is your expertise?

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4 hours ago, The Sicatoka said:

Going back to what I said in the GF Economy thread, that's a mistake: Quit shipping out raw resources; do the value added manufacturing here (make that money too) and ship out that product. 

 

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6 hours ago, SiouxVolley said:

Find your comments pure baloney.  My profession designs huge chemical plants and used to work for two companies that owned crackers, which are the forerunners of the chemical industry.  A man wants to develop the ethane industry in ND and has tied down many feedstocks from the oil companies.  He just needs billions on capital and cooperation from midstream companies like ONEOk.  The same thing just happened in Pennsylvania,  Ohio, and WV, which has has methane cracker plants under construction for the first time.  It takes years to get the resources and facilities tied down.  Used to live near a plant site that is under consideration by a South Korean company.  Shell is building one right now east of Pittsburgh.  Ethane is the most direct and affordable route, as much of the world used to use naphta.

So exactly what is your expertise?

How are any of my statements baloney? No one is denying that ethane crackers are being built across the country, but we are a ways away from building one in ND. If building an ethane cracker in ND was that great of an idea we would have a major petrochemical corporation proposing one instead of one random man. It’s easy to tie down the feed stocks it would take to feed the plant, but the biggest hurdle is securing the billions it will take to build this. I compare this ethane plant to the fertilizer plant in ND. They have everything lined up except for the cash to get it built. Anyone can propose anything but until you have the money nothing will ever get built.

I work in the oil industry. You say your profession designs these plants. Do you mean you design them? It makes no sense to have this plant here when we have no other petrochemical plants around here.

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25 minutes ago, Sioux>Bison said:

How are any of my statements baloney? No one is denying that ethane crackers are being built across the country, but we are a ways away from building one in ND. If building an ethane cracker in ND was that great of an idea we would have a major petrochemical corporation proposing one instead of one random man. It’s easy to tie down the feed stocks it would take to feed the plant, but the biggest hurdle is securing the billions it will take to build this. I compare this ethane plant to the fertilizer plant in ND. They have everything lined up except for the cash to get it built. Anyone can propose anything but until you have the money nothing will ever get built.

I work in the oil industry. You say your profession designs these plants. Do you mean you design them? It makes no sense to have this plant here when we have no other petrochemical plants around here.

North Dakota has a geography problem, and that makes the transportation costs more expensive.  Badlands NGL was formed because they envisioned a cracker plant could over come these limitations.  Rather listen to them then your baloney.

https://www.constructionboxscore.com/project-news/badlands-ngl-to-build-new-north-dakota-ethane-cracker,-pe-complex.aspx

The choices are, build an ethane pipeline to Houston or Pittsburgh costing billions, enlarge the existing NGL mixed pipelines, which would all go out of state to places like Conway, Kansas where they are processed and sent further South or come back north on propane pipelines and would overwhelm the propane and higher NGLs with much lower value, expand the ethane line to Alberta, or spend billions in the state and make higher end products here or nearby.  Most of the ethane is being exported now as lower quality methane which wastes billions in value.  ND has to move up on the food chain, but it would require billions, which the state has.  Chinese or Korean companies can easily just make the Poly fluff here and export it by unit train rr with some going to nearby users.

OneOk has plans to put in de-ethanizers in its ng plants, but they don’t have capacity or a customer to deal with the ethane flows yet.

Alberta and the Marcellus/Utica basin (Pittsburgh and Ohio Valley) had to start from scratch, so it is not impossible.

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