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The Sicatoka

Facilities Master Plan

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NDSU has the money in hand. They have hired an architect.

I think you need to check your finance dictionary. There is a pretty big difference between a budget deficit-which apparently UND has-and receiving institutional funding-which nearly all athletic departments receive.

So when plans were first started to renovate the bsa, ndsu had every dollar lined up. If I remember correctly their was a large fundraising campaign just to make it happen. How can you argue that UND putting together a funding plan for future facilities upgrades was any different than what ndsu did with the BSA. It actually makes sense to do it the way both universities have done it as it's a lot easier solicit future donations for something if you actually can show the donee a plan for what their donation will be used for. To argue that UND is acting any differently than ndsu in this matter is pure idiocy.

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Seriously?

Chapman like all presidents in the UND system feels like he gets the short end of the stick for funding which judging by how our legislatures funds the universities he's probably right. However, if I were going to come on here and start throwing stones at another institution's financial situation I sure wouldn't have done it immediately after our president violated NDBOHE protocol to ask for more money.

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So when plans were first started to renovate the bsa, ndsu had every dollar lined up. If I remember correctly their was a large fundraising campaign just to make it happen. How can you argue that UND putting together a funding plan for future facilities upgrades was any different than what ndsu did with the BSA. It actually makes sense to do it the way both universities have done it as it's a lot easier solicit future donations for something if you actually can show the donee a plan for what their donation will be used for. To argue that UND is acting any differently than ndsu in this matter is pure idiocy.

Hiring an architect before funding is in place does seem to be putting the cart in front of the horse if you ask me.

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NDSU has the money in hand. They have hired an architect.

I think you need to check your finance dictionary. There is a pretty big difference between a budget deficit-which apparently UND has-and receiving institutional funding-which nearly all athletic departments receive.

UND as an institution does not have a deficit. Someone has already posted a link somewhere on one of these threads. The athletic department, like ndsu's before their transition, did run a deficit. Institutional funding will probably also be used to correct this, just like ndsu. So once again how are our situations that different.

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Hiring an architect before funding is in place does seem to be putting the cart in front of the horse if you ask me.

There is a big difference between hiring an architect and starting actual construction. It help fundraising to have an actual plan to show people before they write their checks.

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UND as an institution does not have a deficit. Someone has already posted a link somewhere on one of these threads. The athletic department, like ndsu's before their transition, did run a deficit. Institutional funding will probably also be used to correct this, just like ndsu. So once again how are our situations that different.

What's this?

BUDGET: Tom Buning said the Department of Athletics started the year with a projected $700,000 deficit. Cost savings have been achieved through personnel cuts and a 10% across the board reduction in each sport

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Hiring an architect before funding is in place does seem to be putting the cart in front of the horse if you ask me.

Not to slice and dice this more than it already has been, but if you refering to what UND announced this week Yes UND did hire some A/E firms to perform master planning.

UND athletics selects prominent architectural firms to develop facilities master plan

6/26/2006

Firms to develop athletics plan for 10-year vision

That's a whole different animal than having an architect to design a new building or the renovation of an existing building. While I'm not up on the CPM schedule for the BSA renovation, I do know that NDSU hired an architect recently for the BSA renovation project, but didn't they already have some concept drawings or plans prior to that? A plan of this type would be almost required for fundraising. It appears that is what UND is doing at this time

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I believe that all NDSU had was some concept work done by some students.

I agree completely with your post GeauxSioux.

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I believe that all NDSU had was some concept work done by some students.

I agree completely with your post GeauxSioux.

:sad: That's the first time all day, someone has agreed with something that I've said. Ahh the life of a contractor.

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:sad: That's the first time all day, someone has agreed with something that I've said. Ahh the life of a contractor.

A contractor?

I felt dirty enough agreeing with a UND fan.

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Listen close once and for all, the move to D1 will be fianced by:

UND is continuing to develop the Bronson Property and that will soon bring in $1 Million/year to the university, which will only increase in the future

Increased student fees

Increased ticket prices

Increased Alumni contributions / Endowment

Frozen Four money not currently available as a D2 member

other. Your school has run an athletic deficit before and will also sometime in the future.

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Listen close once and for all, the move to D1 will be fianced by:

UND is continuing to develop the Bronson Property and that will soon bring in $1 Million/year to the university, which will only increase in the future

Increased student fees

Increased ticket prices

Increased Alumni contributions / Endowment

Frozen Four money not currently available as a D2 member

other. Your school has run an athletic deficit before and will also sometime in the future.

If I may add to your list...

Corporate giving. I keep hearing that it tapped out, but with a change to Division I, I believe there is room to grow.

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Hey, thats great! So, how about those new facilities you're ready for too. Are those going to be coming from those same sources? Tickets and the cost of an education might be getting a little tougher to swallow soon according to your plan....

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Hey, thats great! So, how about those new facilities you're ready for too. Are those going to be coming from those same sources? Tickets and the cost of an education might be getting a little tougher to swallow soon according to your plan....

My guess is that at least some of the new facilities will be paid for by large donations that have not been completed yet. If you know anything about philanthropy you know that the largest exchange of wealth in history will happen over the next 10-25 years as the Greatest Generation leaves us. It is much easier to do things properly when you plan in advance, and that is what the Facilities Master Plan is all about. No one said that any or all of the facilities will be built in the next year.

Yeah, tickets and the cost of an education will probably go up. That is what happens at pretty much all schools that move up in classification and most people realized that it was probably going to happen at UND. So why are you so surprised?

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What's the tizzy here about coming up with a facilities plan?

Having a plan on what you'd build where and in what order (when funds come available) is far different from moving dirt and pouring foundations.

And if you aren't a UND supporter, wouldn't UND doing unwise things be better for your cause? Couldn't another school (in a recruiting war) come back with, "You'll be paying for their mistakes with your fees"?

Me-thinks some of this protestation is fear that UND may just have the funds available (from yet defined donors) to put some of this plan in action and thus take yet another significant step forward in a facilities "arms race."

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What's the tizzy here about coming up with a facilities plan?

Having a plan on what you'd build where and in what order (when funds come available) is far different from moving dirt and pouring foundations.

And if you aren't a UND supporter, wouldn't UND doing unwise things be better for your cause? Couldn't another school (in a recruiting war) come back with, "You'll be paying for their mistakes with your fees"?

Me-thinks some of this protestation is fear that UND may just have the funds available (from yet defined donors) to put some of this plan in action and thus take yet another significant step forward in a facilities "arms race."

Hear, hear.

Very well put.

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Buning said he anticipates that a completed master plan report will be available for presentation to the public and University community in the fall of 2006.

My calendar says "October 2006".

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My calendar says "October 2006".

And fall technically lasts through December 21, so I would guess that we will hear something in the next 2 1/2 months.

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Dakota Student Article

Football, Track, and Soccer upgrades

"There is a pressing need to support football, track, and soccer," Athletic Director Tom Buning said.

The three separate programs may seem to create their own separate problems, but the university hopes to create the best solution possible. Buning hopes that the need for an indoor football practice facility and indoor track facility would lead to one shared building.

He also hopes to combine soccer and track facilities. "When we address outdoor track we would like to combine it with a synthetic soccer field."

Open Air Football Stadium - Article Implies IA Aspirations

Rick Tonder, associate director of Facilities, offered one of the more recent solutions.

"We are currently entertaining the possibility of an open-air stadium."

The building of such a stadium would create the capacity required at the Division I level. Buning may have set the timeline for such a project in the future, but he also alluded to the importance of not overlooking the possibility.

New Olympic /Recreational Pool at Wellness Center

So far, a Hyslop renovation is questionable. Tonder explained the Hyslop as being "up in the air" as of right now, suggesting that a pool added onto the Wellness Center might work.

"With so many advances in swimming pool technology, you can easily transition from competitive swimming to recreational, community use in one pool," Buning said.

Ray Richards to 18 holes, Baseball, Softball

Other major needs that will need to be addressed are the need for an indoor practice facility for tennis, a baseball and softball field on campus and expanding the Ray Richards Golf Course to 18 holes. But the plans for all of these facilities are in the works, and according to Tonder there are more questions than answers at this time.
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Dakota Student Article

Football, Track, and Soccer upgrades

Open Air Football Stadium - Article Implies IA Aspirations

I don't see why it is not an option to put synthetic turf in Memorial Stadium and play soccer in there. If..........IF UND football ever does outgrow the Alerus, Memorial could be rennovated to add full bowl seating to accomodate upwards of 20,000 fans, similar to the University of Montana's stadium.

New Olympic /Recreational Pool at Wellness Center

I still don't understand why the swimming program was not moved to the Wellness Center when it was built. The Hyslop should be converted to a a building devoted mostly to tennis, so the sport can be moved on-campus. If we do want the Big Sky, a men's tennis program will have to be added.

Ray Richards to 18 holes, Baseball, Softball

I don't know what to think about baseball and softball, I'm a Lacrosse fan. :glare:

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I don't see why it is not an option to put synthetic turf in Memorial Stadium and play soccer in there. If..........IF UND football ever does outgrow the Alerus, Memorial could be rennovated to add full bowl seating to accomodate upwards of 20,000 fans, similar to the University of Montana's stadium.

To build an indoor practice facility, an outdoor soccer/track, and a new locker room/office space building, it may require knocking down Memorial Stadium. Not that I like that, but Memorial would take a lot of money to refurbish and the track around the field really harms a football atmosphere. No combo track/football stadiums are built anymore. A football field also would have to have a large number of private boxes for high rents - which Memorial really can't offer.

I still don't understand why the swimming program was not moved to the Wellness Center when it was built. The Hyslop should be converted to a a building devoted mostly to tennis, so the sport can be moved on-campus. If we do want the Big Sky, a men's tennis program will have to be added.
Agree with Hyslop --> tennis. A pool at the Wellness Center would have cost $10 mill (I think). That would have been too much of a bite for students at one time.

I don't know what to think about baseball and softball, I'm a Lacrosse fan. :glare:

"There is a pressing need to support football, track, and soccer (which coincidentally could also serve as lacrosse facilities)" Athletic Director Tom Buning said.

Waiting to hear this quote in a few years: "With the venue change of football from the Alerus to UND's new outdoor stadium, UND will continue to utilize the Alerus Center as the home venue for its Lacrosse teams." ???

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Rather interesting article of the effect of U of Montana's stadium on Montana football. The Ralph changed the perception of UND athletics. Would a new outdoor stadium add even more attraction to UND?

Washington-Grizzly Stadium - 20 yrs old

Few structures deserve a birthday party, but Washington-Grizzly Stadium clearly is no ordinary building. Before the Grizzlies moved into their new digs, football attracted lukewarm support, mostly from Missoula-area fans. From 1897 through 1985, UM never won a national title, and few people expected one.

What's even more remarkable is that about 60 percent of the 17,000 season-ticket holders come from outside Missoula. About 3,200 tickets are alotted to UM students ($4 apiece) each week, leaving fewer than 3,000 seats available to the general public.

Tickets aren't cheap. It cost $180 for a six-home-game package this year, including $45 for Homecoming and $50 for the Bobcat-Grizzly Game. Most other games are about $28 apiece.

In 1985, the year before the new stadium opened, UM averaged about 5,500 fans for its home games, said Dave Guffey, longtime Montana sports information director who now serves as assistant athletic director.

"When we added the seats in the north end zone in 2003, we figured construction costs at about $850 per seat. Now, with the cost of cement and everything, we are looking at $1,500 per seat."
So a UND stadium would be roughly $30 to $45 million.

About half of the 49 "luxury boxes" come up for renewal in 2007, and that will provide an additional revenue source. But O'Day said UM has no firm building plans, other than to make seating available for as many fans as possible.
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To build an indoor practice facility, an outdoor soccer/track, and a new locker room/office space building, it may require knocking down Memorial Stadium. Not that I like that, but Memorial would take a lot of money to refurbish and the track around the field really harms a football atmosphere. No combo track/football stadiums are built anymore. A football field also would have to have a large number of private boxes for high rents - which Memorial really can't offer.

I don't know if it would require knocking the stadium down entirely. Assuming the University ever needs to do this it is because there is a need to provide seating for 20,000+ spectators for football games. I'd leave the west side bleacher seating intact, as is, and designate it for students, visitors, and general admission. Complete the full bowl or horseshoe, whatever is required, around the stadium with reserved bucket seating and with luxury boxes on the east and north sides. In an outdoor stadium, luxury boxes will generate much more revenue than in a domed stadium.

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you might be running short of real estate around Memorial soon...the EERC will likely win the fight to take down the old Ralph to make room for the National Hydrogen Center and if you've noticed recently - the east bleachers have been dismantled and sold so it's empty on the old visitors side...

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I don't know if it would require knocking the stadium down entirely. Assuming the University ever needs to do this it is because there is a need to provide seating for 20,000+ spectators for football games. I'd leave the west side bleacher seating intact, as is, and designate it for students, visitors, and general admission. Complete the full bowl or horseshoe, whatever is required, around the stadium with reserved bucket seating and with luxury boxes on the east and north sides. In an outdoor stadium, luxury boxes will generate much more revenue than in a domed stadium.

If/when a new stadium is built, I'm almost positive it would be somewhere on the Bronson property. Exactly where, I don't know.

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