thoughts on the Betty

[UND92,96]

I don't mean to sound overly negative, but I have some real concerns about the Betty as a basketball facility. Once you're in your seat, it's fine, but getting to and from your seat can be a problem. Some of these problems are probably not fixable, but here goes:

1. The lobby is too small. Prior to the UNO games on Saturday, there were so many people waiting in the ticket buying lines that there was no room for people who already had tickets to make their way to the ticket scanners. And this was for a game where the attendance was 2700. What would it be like for a game with 3500 or more, i.e. the St. Cloud State games this year?

2. The hallways going from the lobby to the arena are far too narrow. Particularly when you factor in that there are concession stands in both hallways. These hallways needed to be several feet wider, or else the concession stands should not have been put there.

3. The lack of a concourse or even a walkway behind the scorer's table makes it very difficult to get from one place in the arena to another. I never realized how much I would miss Hyslop's concourse area.

4. Bathrooms are too small. It's good that there are four of them for each gender, but they needed to be made bigger.

Realistically, as things are now, I don't believe the Betty can comfortably accommodate much more than 2000 people for a game. If we get games in which the attendance is in the 3500 to 4000 vicinity, I'm afraid there are going to be a lot of upset and irritated people. I can see a time in which it will become necessary to move conference games either back to the Ralph, or else to the Alerus. And IMO, that could have been avoided with a little more careful planning in the design of the Betty.

[4siouxnow]

Sounds like great problems to have. Too many people at a game is a great problem to have and I'm sure that some of the issues you can be solved with the exception of the restroom issue that's never an easy one to fix.

Maybe with better marketing more season tickets could be sold ahead saving people the wait to buy at the window, any where you go to games if there is a big walk up this is usually an issue, hopefully this will encourage more to buy season tickets.

Could they not put portable concessions on both ends to help eliminate conjestion.

[UND92,96]

Sounds like great problems to have. Too many people at a game is a great problem to have and I'm sure that some of the issues you can be solved with the exception of the restroom issue that's never an easy one to fix.

I agree, except that when the arena can't comfortably hold the number of people that the basketball teams have averaged in the past, there's a problem.

Maybe with better marketing more season tickets could be sold ahead saving people the wait to buy at the window, any where you go to games if there is a big walk up this is usually an issue, hopefully this will encourage more to buy season tickets.

I don't think it was as big of a problem at Hyslop. Unfortunately, that's a recurring theme (positive's from Hyslop that weren't replicated in the Betty).

Could they not put portable concessions on both ends to help eliminate conjestion.

There are concession stands at the ends, although they're not always used. My first recommendation would be to stop using the concession stand in the one hallway where the visiting team and officials' locker room is. They rope off half that hallway so that the teams and ref's can get to the court, which makes the already narrow hallway even moreso.

[LeftyZL]

I don't mean to sound overly negative, but I have some real concerns about the Betty as a basketball facility. Once you're in your seat, it's fine, but getting to and from your seat can be a problem. Some of these problems are probably not fixable, but here goes:

1. The lobby is too small. Prior to the UNO games on Saturday, there were so many people waiting in the ticket buying lines that there was no room for people who already had tickets to make their way to the ticket scanners. And this was for a game where the attendance was 2700. What would it be like for a game with 3500 or more, i.e. the St. Cloud State games this year?

2. The hallways going from the lobby to the arena are far too narrow. Particularly when you factor in that there are concession stands in both hallways. These hallways needed to be several feet wider, or else the concession stands should not have been put there.

3. The lack of a concourse or even a walkway behind the scorer's table makes it very difficult to get from one place in the arena to another. I never realized how much I would miss Hyslop's concourse area.

4. Bathrooms are too small. It's good that there are four of them for each gender, but they needed to be made bigger.

Realistically, as things are now, I don't believe the Betty can comfortably accommodate much more than 2000 people for a game. If we get games in which the attendance is in the 3500 to 4000 vicinity, I'm afraid there are going to be a lot of upset and irritated people. I can see a time in which it will become necessary to move conference games either back to the Ralph, or else to the Alerus. And IMO, that could have been avoided with a little more careful planning in the design of the Betty.

I think these issues are being blown way out of proportion by you, UND 92,96. To solve problem #1, the simple solution would be to ask people to purchase their tickets ahead of time. I remember the old Hyslop having the same types of problems for big-time opponents. I always had to shuffle through the lines of people waiting to buy tickets for the game.

Problem #2 is a problem, especially with the visitor's dressing room right by one of the concession stands and in the hallway. I will concede that one. The concessions areas need to be relocated or else figure out a a way to get the visitors/officials locker room somewhere else. But the concession stand on the other side of the arena is fine, I believe. I've never seen any congestion there before, but I could be mistaken.

Problem #3, well people that are regulars know that you have can only access the opposite bleachers by either walking around the court on the opposite side of the scorer's table, or going back through the entry-way.

Problem #4, the bathrooms are not too small. There are 4 in the arena, all located in the correct location IMO. Going back to using the old Hyslop as an example, do you remember the lines being half-way out to the court during half-time? Because I do, and it was a nuisance. But you have 12 or 15 minutes to go to the bathroom and get to the concession stands, and if people can't do that, they aren't in that big of a hurry if you ask me. It's the same problem at REA right now, where people can't get to their seats in 15 minutes because they are too busy guzzling beer. So, problem #4 isn't a problem to me, just a lack of judgement, time management, and common sense among the people who would become irritated and angry because they are missing the game.

[UND92,96]

I think these issues are being blown way out of proportion by you, UND 92,96. To solve problem #1, the simple solution would be to ask people to purchase their tickets ahead of time. I remember the old Hyslop having the same types of problems for big-time opponents. I always had to shuffle through the lines of people waiting to buy tickets for the game.

If calling attention to what I perceive to be problems constitutes blowing them out of proportion, then I'm guilty as charged. But I do feel that there are, indeed, problems with the Betty that were avoidable. With regard to problem number 1, I would not have brought it up but for the fact that Saturday's game was not against a rival, nor a particularly big-time opponent. It was Omaha. They are arguably the second-worst draw among all current conference opponents. If it was a problem with this game, it will be a problem for all conference games.

Problem #3, well people that are regulars know that you have can only access the opposite bleachers by either walking around the court on the opposite side of the scorer's table, or going back through the entry-way.

Perhaps I'm in a unique situation, since I have two very young children, but at Hyslop, if a person needed to make a quick getaway, you simply needed to duck out into the concourse to deal with a crying kid or some other mini-emergency. Now, you would need to walk all the way down the stairs, behind the bench, past the end bleachers, etc., all in full view of everybody. It's not exactly ideal. And please, refrain from saying "so don't take your kids to the game." All I'm saying is that most other arenas, modern or otherwise, have a better set-up. Hyslop was better. The Alerus is better. And of course, the Ralph is better.

Problem #4, the bathrooms are not too small. There are 4 in the arena, all located in the correct location IMO. Going back to using the old Hyslop as an example, do you remember the lines being half-way out to the court during half-time? Because I do, and it was a nuisance. But you have 12 or 15 minutes to go to the bathroom and get to the concession stands, and if people can't do that, they aren't in that big of a hurry if you ask me. It's the same problem at REA right now, where people can't get to their seats in 15 minutes because they are too busy guzzling beer. So, problem #4 isn't a problem to me, just a lack of judgement, time management, and common sense among the people who would become irritated and angry because they are missing the game.

The bathroom issue is the least of my concerns, but I've heard people complain about it. Again, not to belabor a point, but when there are long lines for a game with 2700 people...

Since nobody else is exactly agreeing with my position, perhaps I'm simply in the minority on this one. I just never thought I'd actually miss Hyslop, but I have to admit that I do.

[ndcaseman]

I had the same thoughts on the arena lst Saturday night. When I walked in last Saturday night I was amazed at the number of people that were in line to see the game. It was great. But, it was a mess because the season ticket holders or people who bought their tickets in advance had to make their way through the crowd to get to the ticket takers. This problem can be easily taken care of by opening up the other half of the room and moving the ticket takers to that side. The rest of the problems are architecual problems and won't be fixed.

Go Sioux!

[coachdags]

I for one totally agree with Und92,96.....In addition to the problems he has already stated, there are some more....

To compare anyting at the Betty with the Hyslop is poor...Thats why this supposedly New State of the Art facility was built was to correct the Problems at the Hyslop with Seating,Bathrooms,Concessions ect...

The Designed layout is Poor,They have taken away a Large Pct of Supposeded locker rooms for The World Junior and REA Staff offices, alot of visiting teams have to dress in the ice rink?...Supose to have 8 fully functional locker rooms- I think we have 3 left?

The accessibilty of concessions and seating is very poor....may be no better than a high school gymnaisum with leather seats......Addional cost each time we have concessions on end to cover wood floor...?

Was never wired for the proper Tv and Radio accesibilties..

Undersized Equipment and Training room facilities.....were these even addressed at construction?

Just took a storage room this year and make it into a weight training facility....

This was not made to be a Athletic Facility in my mind but a additional staging area for the GREAT WORLD JUNIORS???......

Sheetrockwalls(Can not use for any Practice,Softball,Baseball,Soccerr)Bathrooms to close to side courts for practice(INJURY?),Not proper lighting on side courts.....WOULD BE NICE TO HAVE A DRINKIN FOUTAIN?

As far as Game management we are still having Scoreboard,Clock problems...and it would be nice if people did not continually walk in front of you or the floor when the game was going on.....Do we own a Dust Mop?

Just my Thoughts...I thank REA for this one....Had a chance to do it right and Failed.....thank god I did not directly foot anypart of the bill..?

[The Sicatoka]

Questions:

1. How many DIIs would love to have The Betty over what they have?

2. How many DIs would love to have The Betty over what they have?

3. How many DIs or DIIs have the option of playing at either The Ralph or The Al?

Keep filling it for hoops (sorry, not a hoops guy here) and the problem will solve itself: You'll need the space of The Ralph or The Al.

For the record (search and look if you like), I too wish The Betty was about one to two thousand larger, but that just didn't make economic sense when you already have the The Ralph and The Al.

The Betty is a nice arena and even better practice facility. Be happy or some would say you're crying because your ice cream is cold.

[teamsioux]

-I too agree with 92,96. For how large of an investment the Betty is, it was very poorly planned and thought out. I have said all along that the project was rushed (coach dags might have a point about the juniors). There was no way that it shouldn't have more seating....I realize the price skyrocketed with just adding a couple of thousand seats, but why not wait then. The Hyslop would have worked for a few more years...why not wait and see if the DI move happens, because if it does, the Betty is already obsolete, or if the mens' team ever draws well again...which I also wonder about because there should of been more people out every night when the Beas' was here. Saturday's attendance of 2700 (which I don't agree with that low count) made everyone feel like sardines the way it was. Both ends were packed (with very few students), just wait until they are back from break against a team like StCloud or USD. Just adding 250 students will force many of the non-students who sat in the general admission into the reserved seats and then it will be even more of a mess

-As far as concessions, now the north end is roped off during the pregame with it being a pre-game area for the FSC members. Even after the game starts it was a mess with tables and chairs all over and not being taken down. The facility and game management there just seem very unprofessional and unprepared.

-On a earlier post somenone said most of the problems were correctable, really they are not or at least financially possible. The lobby can't be enlarged, wow was that poor planning. Shouldn't any designer/engineer/architect/drunken hillbilly have figured out that concession stands were not intended for hallways/walkways that are only a few feet wide(especially hallways which are the only way to get around from side to side without going on the court).

-One other thing is the scoreboard that is worse than many high school boards, I realize it would tough to get the more advanced ones, because the scorers table has a tough time from messing up on this one and most everything else going on....anyone see the new one down at the BSA in Fargo, nice.

Even after all the complaints about the Betty, please don't make us go back to BB at the Ralph.

[teamsioux]

Questions:

1. How many DIIs would love to have The Betty over what they have?

2. How many DIs would love to have The Betty over what they have?

3. How many DIs or DIIs have the option of playing at either The Ralph or The Al?

Keep filling it for hoops (sorry, not a hoops guy here) and the problem will solve itself: You'll need the space of The Ralph or The Al.

For the record (search and look if you like), I too wish The Betty was about one to two thousand larger, but that just didn't make economic sense when you already have the The Ralph and The Al.

The Betty is a nice arena and even better practice facility. Be happy or some would say you're crying because your ice cream is cold.

-I understand (and agree) with these points, but most gripes on these posts are about the planning and poor use of space at the Betty. When one spends this kind of money, why not do it right?

-If the crowds do get large enough to facilitate a change of venue, the Al has to be the choice. It is too tough to schedule around hockey, not even games but practices especially.

[dakotadan]

It is great that we have a facility like The Betty. It is just a little disappointing that we have a brand new facility and it seems that not as much planning went into the layout as other arenas now being built. Obviously alot of thought went into the planning of the Ralph. It is almost unheard of to not have a large open concourse in any new facility. It seems the Betty was built from a practice/flexability stand point as opposed to designed from the fans perspective. Also, I am curious if the scoreboards were put in with the idea that they were temporary and that down the road fundraising would be done for better boards. The current ones just don't seem like your typical boards found in other arenas.

As far as playing games in the Ralph, it just feels too empty in there with the current setup. However, I think there are things that could be done to make it feel more like a b-ball arena. Instead of setting the floor in the middle of the rink, I would like to see the floor placed on the north end of the rink(opposite end from the zamboni entrance). Instead of portable bleachers on both ends of the floor, they would be placed on the south end of the floor only. I think the horseshoe around the floor would make it feel more like the arena was designed with basketball in mind. The north club level could also get more use during the games. And it would make more suites closer to the action.

Or could curtains be put up to close off the upper level. This would help make the arena smaller for basketball. Even if just the upper level on the west side was curtained off and the east side left open to allow the use of the media level would help.

Just some thoughts.

[new2sioux2]

I guess I'm kind of glad this is a problem, because that means the program is going well and people are out to see the basketball team. My thoughts are that I think the bathroom situation is ok. The concession stands in the hallway should not be used, use each end for that. Perhaps the whole lobby could be opened up with more workers with scanners so that when people come in the door, those with tickets already can go to the left and those who need to purchase tickets could use doors more on the right and get their tickets. The FSC perhaps could meet somewhere else. (weight room, Olympic rink area?? not exactly sure what type of area they need) I too have taken children to the games and it is hard to take a tantrum somewhere..I try the upper area or area behind bleachers. My biggest disappointment is the scoreboard. That could be easily fixed, but takes a lot of money. All in all, I think that the Betty is a beautiful facility. Much nicer than other places. Yes, more planning should have been put into it, but unless they want to do some reconstruction, I think we are crying over spilled milk. I guess we should wait and see how much of a problem this is and how long we can keep attendence up so that it is a problem in the long term. One nice thing was the atmosphere...nice and loud and looked full..great advantage to the home team.

[UND92,96]

Coachdags, teamsioux and dakotadan--very good points. I don't think any of us had some sort of pre-conceived notion that we weren't going to particularly like the Betty. I really wanted to like it. There are just some rather glaring miscalculations in its design. I don't know who's ultimately responsible, and it really doesn't matter at this point because what's done is done. In retrospect, I would have much preferred to remain at Hyslop until a bit more study had gone into exactly what type of arena we wanted and could afford. It really does seem as though everything was rushed, and rushing something of this magnitude is rarely a good idea.

[CoteauRinkRat]

Coachdags, teamsioux and dakotadan--very good points. I don't think any of us had some sort of pre-conceived notion that we weren't going to particularly like the Betty. I really wanted to like it. There are just some rather glaring miscalculations in its design. I don't know who's ultimately responsible, and it really doesn't matter at this point because what's done is done. In retrospect, I would have much preferred to remain at Hyslop until a bit more study had gone into exactly what type of arena we wanted and could afford. It really does seem as though everything was rushed, and rushing something of this magnitude is rarely a good idea.

I agree with all of your points.

I also think there needs to be a little better use of signs and section numbers, especially in the entryway, this would help direct the people to the north or south side of the arena.

[huskies679]

Do you think there is a change that the SCSU game would be moved to the REA?

[sultan]

Above and beyond some of the miscues that were made with the layout, it is great facility to watch a basketball game. It provides a great atmosphere and the fans can be right on top of the other team. It can be a real home court advantage.

[UND92,96]

Do you think there is a change that the SCSU game would be moved to the REA?

No, I don't think they would try to move the game at this point. It would create more problems than it would solve.

[UND92,96]

Above and beyond some of the miscues that were made with the layout, it is great facility to watch a basketball game. It provides a great atmosphere and the fans can be right on top of the other team. It can be a real home court advantage.

I agree that having the fans so close to the floor makes for a good atmosphere, and it does provide a significant homecourt advantage. The was something that was definitely missing when the games were played at the Ralph.

[coachdags]

No, I don't think they would try to move the game at this point. It would create more problems than it would solve.

Did we not have ice problems? When we tried to host both...?

I thought Blais said our ice was Poor, Because of covering and resurfacing....?

[UND92,96]

Did we not have ice problems? When we tried to host both...?

I thought Blais said our ice was Poor, Because of covering and resurfacing....?

Yes, that's my recollection, as well.

[dakotadan]

There is a thread over at D2basketball.com where people have been posting pix of their school's arenas. There are some pretty nice ones there as far as DII is concerned. There are a couple there that many DI schools would probably love to have. The Betty just doesn't seem to be laid out as nicely as many of them.

D2Basketball.com

Arena Thread

[coachdags]

minn st mankato is by far the best laid out functional facility in the ncc...great lighting ,great atomsphere, great sight lines, built in a bowl like structure you enter from the top, easy access to concessions and restrooms, ring like vouyer area is excellent.....made to house only b-ball, volleyball, wrestling.....

also great smoked glass overlook booster area...donated by taylor from the timberwolves with help with the namesake bresnan arena....great place to watch a game...

maybe only draw back 4800 great seats...700 standing room....u always may want bigger perfect d2 size

[huskies679]

minn st mankato is by far the best laid out functional facility in the ncc...great lighting ,great atomsphere, great sight lines, built in a bowl like structure you enter from the top, easy access to concessions and restrooms, ring like vouyer area is excellent.....made to house only b-ball, volleyball, wrestling.....

also great smoked glass overlook booster area...donated by taylor from the timberwolves with help with the namesake bresnan arena....great place to watch a game...

maybe only draw back 4800 great seats...700 standing room....u always may want bigger perfect d2 size

I really like the layout of Bresnan, but the atmosphere is not that good and I didnt' like the lighting at all. It takes alot of pepple in there to make some noise and the sound is kinda dead. The layiout is perfect for dealing with crowds and it is the nicest looking arena in the NCC.

[coachdags]

As far as home court advantage in current NCC...ie Crowd unds,Closeness to court, ect...

I would nave to rank the top ones....God I miss Hyslop,,was # 1, Frost Arena not far behind

Currently

Hallenbeck Hall

The Betty

Bresnan Arena

Duluth,Augie, like High School Gyms

UNO

and then the Cow Palace..USD is the worst...

[UND Fan]

There is no question that the Betty was planned too quickly and various issues have arisen. As 92/96 appropriately pointed out in his initial post, some of these were quite obvious oversites. Another problem that I don't believe has been noted is the lack of storage in the building - it simply doesn't exist.

The bottom line was that as soon as the Betty became a possibility (funding was available), the top priority was to get it built prior to the World Juniors.

The Athletic Department understands some of these shortcomings. Solutions have been discussed. Of course, there are not easy nor inexpensive ways to address some of them.

Bottom line - despite a few problems, this is a great building. Recruiting young, talented athletes to it (as opposed to Hyslop) should be much easier. The recent addition of a weight room will also assist as, until now, all athletes had to jump into a cold car after practice and drive back to Hyslop to lift.