[Runninwiththedogs]

PCM, on Sep 16 2005, 05:43 PM, said:

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This semester, An American Indian student who was only here a week was walking when people called him a “Prairie Nigger” and told to go back to the reservation. He wanted to go home after the incident.

That shouldn't happen. Was this incident reported? People who engage in such racist activities should be expelled.

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These kinds of incidents are happening everyday to American Indian students whether they are for or against the nickname/logo and you can not tell me that it does not interfere with their education. All of these events have been documented.

I don't believe that getting rid of the Sioux name and logo will change the thinking of any racist currently attending UND or any racist who might attend it in the future. All that can be done is to identify such people and make them pay for their actions. Or are you telling me that all those in favor of supporting UND's use of the Sioux name and logo approve of racist behavior?
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Wouldn't it be more productive if more time was taken to punish these bigots, rather than wasting time and resources with this name change b.s.?
I mean, the journey of a zillion miles begins with one step, of course, but why does that step have to be the name change? Why couldn't it be something more positive, like one of the general education requirements involve a class in Native American history or culture (including, but not limited to, the Sioux)? Even a freshman mini course for the first 6 weeks might be a good idea. Why couldn't it be something more productive, like cracking down on racially-motivated harassment and crime? Why couldn't it be something healing, like reaching out to Native American teenagers and encouraging them to go to college WHEREVER THEY CHOOSE, and empowering them to achieve their goals? Why does it have to be something that truly accomplishes nothing? Why does it have to be something so divisive? Why does it have to be something that is only speculated to lead to a better life for the native population of North Dakota?

KnowtheFacts, on Sep 17 2005, 10:41 PM, said:

interesting.. the people who dont see the racism like the idea of the "mascot" and the ones that are around and experience the racism and ignorance are against it...hmmm. 
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Don't you know there is no MASCOT for the Fighting Sioux. There is a LOGO but no MASCOT anymore.

Incidentally, the Ajax logo used to be the unofficial logo for a plasma-material interaction experiment I was involved in as an undergrad at Illinois (HOME OF THE FIGHTING ILLINI). The project was called IIAX, and is pronounced the same as Ajax. But, we never referred to ourselves as Jews.

[Sioux-cia]

KnowtheFacts, on Sep 17 2005, 10:41 PM, said:

interesting.. the people who dont see the racism like the idea of the "mascot" <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

KnowNothing scores again.

The University of North Dakota does NOT have a MASCOT!

[petey23]

2nd hand....

UND alum at Scheels the other day, wearing a UND Hat, Scheels employee asks him if he is looking for UND gear, he says yes I am. Scheels employee says something to the effect of if you want to buy some gear with the Indian head logo on it, you better get it now. Lady comes around the corner and says that wasn't very smart and "reports" "something" to the manager, employee gets sent home for day and will find out his employment status later. Unbelievable.

[HockeyMom]

Sioux-cia, on Sep 17 2005, 11:30 PM, said:

KnowtheFacts, on Sep 17 2005, 10:41 PM, said:

interesting.. the people who dont see the racism like the idea of the "mascot" <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

KnowNothing scores again.

The University of North Dakota does NOT have a MASCOT!
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

They don't, vaht?!

Ha ha quoted because it made me laugh.

[PCM]

From the Desert Morning News (Utah):
A handful do object to the U.'s nickname

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Not everyone would have sided with the NCAA when it recently decided the University of Utah could keep its nickname: the Utes.

Plenty of people, even American Indian leaders, supported the U. as the NCAA accused the university of being among 18 member institutions considered to be using American Indian mascots, nicknames or imagery in a "hostile" or "abusive" manner.

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In a copy of an e-mail Esplin received, Charles Kupchella, president of the University of North Dakota, which goes by the nickname Fighting Sioux, said the NCAA was guilty of " 'political correctness run amok' as suggested by some papers." That school is in danger of losing at least one large donation if the nickname is changed.

The reference to Kupchella is confusing. The "political correctness run amok" part is straight out of his open letter to the NCAA. So did Esplin receive an e-mail from Kupchella or did someone copy him on UND's open letter to the NCAA along with other comments about UND's situation? Who said UND was in danger of losing a large donation if the name changed? Kupchella or someone relying on the numerous rumors being circulated?

I wish some of these newspapers would be more precise in their reporting.

[PCM]

KnowtheFacts, on Sep 17 2005, 10:41 PM, said:

But who cares, those Israelies have more important things to worry about.  Like preserving their country....  what is a little anti-semitism and good hearted racist chants, when there are tanks and suicide bombers to worry about?<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You've completely misinterpreted this story, which was previously discussed in this thread. I'm not going to retype what I've already said in this post.

[Sioux-cia]

PCM, on Sep 18 2005, 10:41 AM, said:

The reference to Kupchella is confusing. The "political correctness run amok" part is straight out of his open letter to the NCAA. So did Esplin receive an e-mail from Kupchella or did someone copy him on UND's open letter to the NCAA along with other comments about UND's situation? Who said UND was in danger of losing a large donation if the name changed? Kupchella or someone relying on the numerous rumors being circulated?

I wish some of these newspapers would be more precise in their reporting. 
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Agree.

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From the Desert Morning News (Utah):
[url=http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,605155493,00.html
In another e-mail from Tom-Orme, this one to Young, she wrote, "How have we used the Ute name respectfully? Do we have a Ute room anywhere on campus? Is there a building named the Northern Ute Building? Do we display Ute art or Ute themes anywhere in campus? In fact, I cannot think of any activity, event or place where we have used the Northern Ute name respectfully."
      Esplin wrote back to Tom-Orme that all of the streets in the U. Research Park are named after prominent Ute leaders.

Notice that the reporter failed to mention all the American Indian programs and services UND has. UND provides more than a few streets named after American Indians.

[Sioux-cia]

PCM, on Sep 18 2005, 10:59 AM, said:

KnowtheFacts, on Sep 17 2005, 10:41 PM, said:

But who cares, those Israelies have more important things to worry about.  Like preserving their country....  what is a little anti-semitism and good hearted racist chants, when there are tanks and suicide bombers to worry about?<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You've completely misinterpreted this story, which was previously discussed in this thread. I'm not going to retype what I've already said in this post.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Know???'s posting is another fine example of pulling out bits and pieces of documentation and putting them together to meet her/his needs. Those parts that don't fit are conveniently left out.

[Sioux-cia]

Straight from the NC$$ News Online archives. UND doesn't have a mascot but I found this NC$$ article an interesting read especially since it is an NC$$ article. If this has been printed before, sorry.

http://www2.ncaa.org/media_and_events/asso...ws/4119n18.html
It's all in the name
From Bulldogs to Horned Frogs, mascots help build institutional identity
The NCAA News Online, September 13th, 2004
By Beth Rosenberg
The NCAA News

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There are mascots that are relatively common, and often the animal or person chosen brings to mind attributes of an ideal athletics team -- strong, fierce, wise or powerful.

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"The amount of stock we put in mascots is something that is unique to us here in the United States," said California University of Pennsylvania professor Roy E. Yarbrough, author of the book, "Mascots: The History of Senior College and University Mascots/Nicknames." "Mascots are supposed to be good luck charms, and our connection with them goes back to us wanting to feel that good luck."

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It's not often that schools change mascots or nicknames, but when they do it's usually because their former icon was considered politically incorrect by some and the change was needed to quiet the controversy.

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Yarbrough said changing a nickname or mascot isn't an easy decision, and it can be costly. He estimated that it takes between $150,000 and $200,000 to change it, and the impact can be detrimental if it doesn't have the support of students, fans and alumni.

"You'll always find someone who's offended, someone's always not happy. There are those who say the Fighting Irish (of Notre Dame) is offensive," he said. "I think some folks get too uptight.

"Let's have fun, that was the intent. Let that magic flow, that magic that the mascot is supposed to have given us, because that was the intent -- a sense of identity."

NC$$ Hall of Champions is hosting a Collegiate Mascot Exhibit. http://www2.ncaa.org/media_and_events/pres...cotexhibit.html
NCAA Hall of Champions to Host Collegiate Mascot Exhibit, June 6 - September 24

The idea of the exhibit came from the above posted article. Has anyone seen it? I'm just wondering if any 'human' mascots are part of the display. I couldn't find a complete listing of the exhibits.

[PCM]

Sioux-cia, on Sep 18 2005, 12:33 PM, said:

Straight from the NC$$ News Online archives.  UND doesn't have a mascot but I found this NC$$ article an interesting read especially since it is an NC$$ article.  <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Good find, Sioux-cia. I also thought this comment in the NCAA news release was interesting:

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Newspapers picking nicknames
Yarbrough said that in some cases, schools received their nicknames from newspaper reporters.

In other words, the role played by the Dakota Student in UND's selection of the Sioux nickname isn't anything unusual.

[Diggler]

I'd just like to say they've I've changed my mind on a certain nickname. The Minnesota Vikings need to change their name. Watching them play today and I'm completely offended.

[Goon]

Diggler, on Sep 18 2005, 03:24 PM, said:

I'd just like to say they've I've changed my mind on a certain nickname.  The Minnesota Vikings need to change their name.  Watching them play today and I'm completely offended.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think that all Norsk's should be offended by the Vikings shameful use of the Vikings nick name. They suck.

[Sioux-cia]

Goon, on Sep 18 2005, 02:36 PM, said:

Diggler, on Sep 18 2005, 03:24 PM, said:

I'd just like to say they've I've changed my mind on a certain nickname.  The Minnesota Vikings need to change their name.  Watching them play today and I'm completely offended.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think that all Norsk's should be offended by the Vikings shameful use of the Vikings nick name. They suck.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

In the meantime, I'm smiling! The Bears won , the White Sox won , the Twins lost and the Vikings lost. Here's to the Pack going down as well!
Com'on guys, we know Chicago teams haven't done well in, well, years. I gotta take my props when I can.

[Sioux-cia]

Sioux-cia, on Sep 18 2005, 03:51 PM, said:

Goon, on Sep 18 2005, 02:36 PM, said:

Diggler, on Sep 18 2005, 03:24 PM, said:

I'd just like to say they've I've changed my mind on a certain nickname.  The Minnesota Vikings need to change their name.  Watching them play today and I'm completely offended.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think that all Norsk's should be offended by the Vikings shameful use of the Vikings nick name. They suck.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

In the meantime, I'm smiling! The Bears won , the White Sox won , the Twins lost and the Vikings lost. Here's to the Pack going down as well!
Com'on guys, we know Chicago teams haven't done well in, well, years. I gotta take my props when I can.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Cleveland 26 Green Bay 24>>>It's been a wonderful Sunday!!

[PCM]

From the Sept. 17 Centre Daily Times:
Chippewas face much bigger, tougher opponent than Nittany Lions

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It's not that the NCAA doesn't have a robust cluster of supporters. Many people -- mostly the bright white minions of the human rights army -- want to make amends for all our nation's historical wrongs by wiping out a few words from the dialect of sport.

[dakotadan]

PCM, on Sep 20 2005, 03:25 PM, said:

From the Sept. 17 Centre Daily Times:
Chippewas face much bigger, tougher opponent than Nittany Lions
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Quote

Never mind that the entire map of the Midwest is dotted with a litany of Indian words slapped on cities, towns, rivers, lakes and tribally owned casinos (what's more spiritual than blue-haired ladies lined up to deposit their social security checks into the bowels of one-armed bandits?).

[Sioux-cia]

PCM, on Sep 20 2005, 03:25 PM, said:

From the Sept. 17 Centre Daily Times:
Chippewas face much bigger, tougher opponent than Nittany Lions

Quote

It's not that the NCAA doesn't have a robust cluster of supporters. Many people -- mostly the bright white minions of the human rights army -- want to make amends for all our nation's historical wrongs by wiping out a few words from the dialect of sport.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Somebody call the PC police, . Where's a censor when you need one!! Somebody quick, call GrahamKracker!!

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rampaging NCAA

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chucked its tomahawk-of-goodwill right between the shoulder blades of 18 programs

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Regardless of which side of the teepee you stand on

[KnowtheFacts]

Sioux-cia, on Sep 17 2005, 11:30 PM, said:

KnowtheFacts, on Sep 17 2005, 10:41 PM, said:

interesting.. the people who dont see the racism like the idea of the "mascot" <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

KnowNothing scores again.

The University of North Dakota does NOT have a MASCOT!
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I never said it did Stupid-cia! I wasnt talking about UND now was I? I was simply bringing information to the table about another sports team that uses a race to represent their sports team.

Yells inside the Stadium

Quote

What follows is a selection of translated chants by Feyenoord fans. The two last ones rhyme in Dutch:

Ssssssssssssssssssssssssss... (the hissing sound of gas)
We're hunting the Jews!
There is the Ajax train to Auschwitz!
Sieg! Sieg! Sieg! (German for 'victory', yelled while performing the Hitler's Salute)

Who's that Jew over there?
That Jew from Amsterdam?
He's f*ing his own kid
His name is Danny Blind

Van Praag is Jew plague
Put Van Praag under a circular saw

sure, no is offended by these cheers.... just keep on living in your little fantasy world.....

[PCM]

KnowtheFacts, on Sep 21 2005, 09:45 AM, said:

sure, no is offended by these cheers.... just keep on living in your little fantasy world.....
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So your solution is to allow the the bigots and anti-Semites who use these cheers to continue to be bigoted and anti-Semitic while those who use the unofficial "Jews" nickname in a positive manner are censored? Does this make sense to you? Do you work for the NCAA?

This post has been edited by PCM: 21 September 2005 - 10:54 AM

[Sioux-cia]

KnowtheFacts, on Sep 21 2005, 09:45 AM, said:

Sioux-cia, on Sep 17 2005, 11:30 PM, said:

KnowtheFacts, on Sep 17 2005, 10:41 PM, said:

interesting.. the people who dont see the racism like the idea of the "mascot" <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

KnowNothing scores again.

The University of North Dakota does NOT have a MASCOT!
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I never said it did Stupid-cia! I wasnt talking about UND now was I? I was simply bringing information to the table about another sports team that uses a race to represent their sports team.

Yells inside the Stadium

Quote

What follows is a selection of translated chants by Feyenoord fans. The two last ones rhyme in Dutch:

Ssssssssssssssssssssssssss... (the hissing sound of gas)
We're hunting the Jews!
There is the Ajax train to Auschwitz!
Sieg! Sieg! Sieg! (German for 'victory', yelled while performing the Hitler's Salute)

Who's that Jew over there?
That Jew from Amsterdam?
He's f*ing his own kid
His name is Danny Blind

Van Praag is Jew plague
Put Van Praag under a circular saw

sure, no is offended by these cheers.... just keep on living in your little fantasy world.....
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You offend me, yet, I would never presume to ask that your voice be squashed. Tunnel vision is not a punishable by law crime. Keep talking and presenting biased, self serving non-facts. First Amendment rights apply to all citizens of these United States even you.