[redwing77]

Stromer, on Feb 10 2009, 11:01 PM, said:

Not only is she very much against the name, but she is very much against anything that is not in the best interests of the people in power or any attempts to clean up the corruption that runs riot in tribal government. It isn't going to be an easy task.

Hey Chief,

I think I can rest my case.

[Chief Illiniwek Supporter]

redwing77, on Feb 10 2009, 09:17 PM, said:

I think I can rest my case.

Well, I never said it would be an easy task. Let's face it, there was a newspaper story about something as democratic as an holding an election. It's obviously quite the occassion to have a tribal election-otherwise it wouldn't be news.

As noted, places like Venezuela, Cuba and Soviet-era Russia had "strongmen" government for up to 70-some years. It's not right, but it happens. Hopefully, a little sunlight will be a good disinfectant.

Better to have an election (or at least try to have an election) than to give up. Make this woman go on record opposing an free election.

redwing77, on Feb 9 2009, 07:58 PM, said:

I just wonder if they'll wait for a recount before declaring it or will they just wait until 1 minute past the vote tally counting to declare a misvote.

If there is an election and if the side favoring the nickname wins and if the small number of elders/rulers declares that the election was invalid, wouldn't they say that they need impartial observers in order to hold a fair election?

(Same thing would hold for the next general tribal vote for leadership, wouldn't it? Might be self-defeating for them to scream "fix" too loudly on an election that doesn't affect the people in power.)

Goon, on Feb 10 2009, 08:39 AM, said:

I think UND could have done some outreach a long time ago.'
I think it is a little too late now.

I'll let the locals comment on this-but are there no "outreach" programs right now? No scholarships, no favored admissions?

There's a long way to go, but if the tribe is willing to negotiate I'd say the other side (the University) has everything to gain and nothing to lose by listening and talking.

[Ray77]

Just saw this...thought it was interesting.

Spirit Lake tribal members want referendum on nickname

[Goon]

Ray77, on Feb 11 2009, 10:34 AM, said:

Just saw this...thought it was interesting.

Spirit Lake tribal members want referendum on nickname

If we don't get an up or down vote from the Standing Rock tribe this will be meaningless.

[Chief Illiniwek Supporter]

Goon, on Feb 11 2009, 10:44 AM, said:

If we don't get an up or down vote from the Standing Rock tribe this will be meaningless.

I would like to ask the locals this question: if one of the tribes does hold a referendum and the supporters of the nickname win, do you think that will at least put pressure on the leadership of the other tribe to schedule a similar referendum?

[Siouxmama]

Chief Illiniwek Supporter, on Feb 11 2009, 11:41 AM, said:

I would like to ask the locals this question: if one of the tribes does hold a referendum and the supporters of the nickname win, do you think that will at least put pressure on the leadership of the other tribe to schedule a similar referendum?

I think as long as Ron His Horse Is Thunder is in charge, it will go nowhere...fast.

[The Sicatoka]

Siouxmama, on Feb 11 2009, 12:17 PM, said:

I think as long as Ron His Horse Is Thunder is in charge, it will go nowhere...fast.

Kim Jong His Horse is Thunder ...

[darell1976]

Siouxmama, on Feb 11 2009, 12:17 PM, said:

I think as long as Ron His Horse Is Thunder is in charge, it will go nowhere...fast.

I was worried that this would happen when the NCAA said they needed 2 tribes instead of 1 since the Spirit Lake Tribe in a way has been more favoriable to the name than the Standing Rock. So i think we are only going to get 1 out of the 2 tribes support. And its not enough. And since Ron the @ss hole thunder is still in charge, there won't be a vote on the Standing Rock because he knows they would side with the nickname and that would make him look like the goon that he is. But i give a lot of credit to the Spirit Lake for trying to get a vote across they have my respect.

[redwing77]

darell1976, on Feb 11 2009, 10:27 PM, said:

I was worried that this would happen when the NCAA said they needed 2 tribes instead of 1 since the Spirit Lake Tribe in a way has been more favoriable to the name than the Standing Rock. So i think we are only going to get 1 out of the 2 tribes support. And its not enough. And since Ron the @ss hole thunder is still in charge, there won't be a vote on the Standing Rock because he knows they would side with the nickname and that would make him look like the goon that he is. But i give a lot of credit to the Spirit Lake for trying to get a vote across they have my respect.

Don't hold your breath.

I think there will be no tribal support at all.

If anything, Goon is right. Too little, too late.

Such a defeatist attitude, sure, but that's how it is.

[TRex]

The Sicatoka, on Feb 11 2009, 08:02 PM, said:

Kim Jong His Horse is Thunder ...

That is not only unfair, but totally uncalled for. Anyone who sticks up for basic rights in this abusive issue will be portrayed in a negative light by certain people here. It grows old.

[sioux7>5]

TRex, on Feb 11 2009, 09:57 PM, said:

That is not only unfair, but totally uncalled for. Anyone who sticks up for basic rights in this abusive issue will be portrayed in a negative light by certain people here. It grows old.

What? What is unfair about it.

[TRex]

sioux7>5, on Feb 11 2009, 10:05 PM, said:

What? What is unfair about it.

You are comparing a Sioux leader to one of the worlds worst tyrants.

[siouxjoy]

TRex, on Feb 11 2009, 09:57 PM, said:

Anyone who sticks up for basic rights in this abusive issue

I try to avoid posting on this topic, but I had to say something here. How does not allowing people voice their opinion (by refusing a referendum) equal sticking up for basic rights? It is just my opinion, but I believe that freedom of speech is a pretty important basic right, and His Horse is Thunder is denying this right to the people of Standing Rock.

I think referendums can go a long way in the nickname debate. A lot of this "well I heard that..." and "the people that I know on the rez say..." will be either supported or eliminated by actual votes.

If the general population of the reservations support the nickname, it will be known. If the general population of the reservations don't support the nickname, it will be known.

My 2 cents. Well, maybe 3 cents.

[Oxbow6]

TRex, on Feb 11 2009, 11:53 PM, said:

You are comparing a Sioux leader to one of the worlds worst tyrants.

I think the comparison is very fitting. Two leaders, although on different scales, abusing their power to silence the (potential) voice of their own people. Not allowing the voice of people to be heard due to one's own belief while that person is in power is exactly what Jong and Ronnie do.

And enough with the "abusive issue". Go take a walk on a res in ND...they do just fine with "abusive issues" on their own!

[ScottM]

Oxbow6, on Feb 12 2009, 09:15 AM, said:

I think the comparison is very fitting. Two leaders, although on different scales, abusing their power to silence the (potential) voice of their own people. Not allowing the voice of people to be heard due to one's own belief while that person is in power is exactly what Jong and Ronnie do.

There you go being all rational and logical again ... it's going to make Rex's walnut-sized brain melt.

[sioux7>5]

TRex, on Feb 11 2009, 10:53 PM, said:

You are comparing a Sioux leader to one of the worlds worst tyrants.

Well they are very similar they both do waht is in their best interest and not what is in the best interest of the people. The rule by dictatorship. So they are the same. If Ron McNeil(AKA Ron His Horse) would do what is best for the tribe then he will have some of my respect until then. He can piss off!

[Chewey]

siouxjoy, on Feb 12 2009, 10:54 AM, said:

I try to avoid posting on this topic, but I had to say something here. How does not allowing people voice their opinion (by refusing a referendum) equal sticking up for basic rights? It is just my opinion, but I believe that freedom of speech is a pretty important basic right, and His Horse is Thunder is denying this right to the people of Standing Rock.

I think referendums can go a long way in the nickname debate. A lot of this "well I heard that..." and "the people that I know on the rez say..." will be either supported or eliminated by actual votes.

If the general population of the reservations support the nickname, it will be known. If the general population of the reservations don't support the nickname, it will be known.

My 2 cents. Well, maybe 3 cents.

Exactly. If the tribal members believe that they are being "abused" by the nickname, doesn't TREX actually think that such a sentiment would be expressed through a vote? RHHT's position that "I think it is abusive and, therefore, it is for everyone" is exactly the sort of thing that petty tyrants do. True, RHHT does not have people killed and does not participate in the spreading of nuclear weapons but this sort of sentiment is something that he'd probably share with good old Kimmy Jong and the boys.

[Oxbow6]

ScottM, on Feb 12 2009, 11:01 AM, said:

There you go being all rational and logical again.

Just wish I could hear that from my wife once in a while ...but V-day is just around the corner so maybe there's a chance!

[Chief Illiniwek Supporter]

siouxjoy, on Feb 12 2009, 08:54 AM, said:

...but I believe that freedom of speech is a pretty important basic right, and His Horse is Thunder is denying this right to the people of Standing Rock.

Attempting to silence anyone who disagrees with you by demonizing them, saying they fail to support "basic human rights": oldest trick in the book. You'll be the sole judge of what is and isn't a "basic human right".

And as far as the namecalling? Politics ain't beanbag. Ron/Thunder is a politician, and there is a long tradition of "anything goes" in political mudslinging. For all we know, right now some Kim Jong Il supporter is mad because he's being compared to Ron/Thunder.

People have a right to make political comparisons, and they also have a right to disagree with those comparisons; its as simple as that. However, silencing someone else's opinion is most definitely NOT a right in the USA.

[mksioux]

A referendum is meaningless. Even if both tribes allowed it (which they won't) and it came out in favor of allowing the name to continue, it will not be recognized by the NCAA under the terms of the settlement agreement. And even if it were recognized, it would not be viable consent for UND to operate under. A new referendum could come up a year later. The only way that tribal approval would work is if UND and the tribes reached a long-term written agreement with "incentives" to the tribes. Reaching such an agreement would require serious people putting together a serious proposal. Sadly, that is not happening.