[dagies]

star2city, on Jun 20 2006, 09:33 PM, said:

Nick Coleman continues his vendetta against UND:

Why does UND insist on being so hardheaded?

Quote

If, despite the general flatness, there is anything resembling a cliff near Grand Forks, N.D., it would be wise to post a cop near the summit. UND appears ready to jump.
...
I have written about this many times over the years, always with the hope of never needing to mention it again. But the University of North Dakota, despite its big brains, is remarkably thick-skulled.
...
It could continue to call its teams Fighting Sioux -- against all common sense and common decency. It just wouldn't be allowed to brandish the name in post-season play. This was as good as UND will get. And better than it deserves.
...
Pandering to people with open wallets? That's how UND got into this mess in the first place. It seems to be an entrenched practice at UND.

One that is ruining the reputation of a public university. And taking it over a cliff.

This guy ruined my breakfast this morning. Here's a particularly tasty quote from his piece:

Quote

Unfortunately, the "Fighting Sioux" name is popular with wealthy benefactors, some of whom would wear chicken feather headdresses and whoop it up at cocktail parties if they still could.

Nick Coleman is exactly why UND needs to fight this policy. The idea that an individual or an organization can make up what amounts to bogus charges on their own, then assign that guilt to someone else, and expect that person to bend over and take it is vulgar. Coleman does the exact same thing to UND benefactors. This particular comment is obscene, IMO. I almost never use the word offended, but this fabrication gets me as close to that as anything I can think of.

It's no surprise to me now why Coleman thinks he must finger point to everyone else's perceived racist and offensive beliefs. It takes one to know one.

[The Sicatoka]

Nick Coleman = Don Quixote, and he needs to find a new windmill.

[fightonsioux]

"This is why the business that I work at has a daily subscription to the Fargo Forum (including weekends, even when we are closed on weekends) and refuses to get a subscription to the herald."

Apparently you have forgotten that every editorial and column the Forum writes says to change the name - especially McFeeley.

I suppose you didn't see the story in the Herald the other day about the U.S. Mint that will be putting out a new gold coin. It has bison on one side and guess what is on the other side - that's right - and Indian. I wonder if the U.S. Mint realize they are hostile and abusive

[A.B.T.G.]

Nick Coleman can be e-mailed at ncoleman@startribune.com

[yekcoh]

I am offended by both Nick Coleman and Mike McFeely, but my being offended does not stop them from writing. Hmmm.

[ScottM]

Quote

The university used to call its teams "Flickertails," but that name never attracted interest from Las Vegas casino owners who collected Nazi memorabilia and brought out cakes with Swastika icing to observe the birthday of Adolf Hitler.

The casino guy was Ralph Engelstad, and it was his tainted $100 million that built UND's hockey rink.

No, idiot boy, the Sioux name/logo were in place well before Ralph attended UND, and later made his fortune. But don't let facts get in the way of a good cry.

Quote

By any measure, the Fighting Sioux name is one of the most offensive nicknames in the country.

Ah, another proud graduate of the Myles Brand Institute of Anally Derived Statistics. Apparently, if the decaf latte set is upset, the rest of the world should follow suit.

Quote

It is a move that will bring nothing but embarrassment upon UND and is so dubious as a legal strategy that the state attorney general advised that public money not be used.

Wrong again, dummy. Anybody worth their legal stones knows you don't pull a trigger unless you have a good chance of success. Private funds are used to avoid using public funds, which horror of horrors, may be used to fund programs for American Indians.

Quote

Instead, the cost will be paid by private donors whose passions have been inflamed by the NCAA's feeble efforts to get UND to grow up.

I wouldn't call defaming a public institution "feeble". Nor do I see any reason for UND to "grow" into a pathetic place like Marquette.

Quote

One that is ruining the reputation of a public university. And taking it over a cliff.

Well, it's better than taking it in the a$$, like you seem to want.

[7NationalTitles]

I don't like Nick Coleman and there are many reasons I despise him.

But one thing I found interesting stood out to me in his article. Did anyone else notice that Nick Coleman had a reference to Brokeback Mountain? I'm wondering the symbolism of that but I think we all know why he invoked the movie into his article.....there must be a particular reason, of all the movies ever made, to throw a reference from that one in it.

My wife happened to have on TV the other day and a commercial came on for a movie that I think Nick would have referenced if he had seen the movie..........it was called A Girl Like Me.....a young boy's/man's struggle to live the life of a woman he always wanted. Perhaps that is the type of intervention that Ms. Coleman needs to experience.

Sorry but Nick needs to get off his liberal soapbox and realize that UND will never be as liberal (thank god) as the U of M.

[siouxforeverbaby]

Though you notice that he couldn't even say who played the character from Brokeback Mountain. As a newspaper man you would think that he could research a little and find at least that. I believe that it was Jake Gynheal(spelled wrong but you know who I mean) who said it.

[Siouxmama]

Notice at the end of the article is his email address. We should all send him a note on his pathetic article. It doesnt get any more 1 sided than that. I sent him a message, hope there are more of you out there that will do the same.

[Snake]

I wonder how Bennett Brien likes having the logo called a "caricature."

[WildSioux]

Siouxmama, on Jun 21 2006, 02:09 PM, said:

Notice at the end of the article is his email address. We should all send him a note on his pathetic article. It doesnt get any more 1 sided than that. I sent him a message, hope there are more of you out there that will do the same.

Already did that Siouxmama I asked him why he has to be so hardheaded in his ways of flawed logic. Anyone else notice that he failed to mention that Ralph Engelstad was a goalie for UND? How about him failing to mention that FSU was able to keep their name that is much more offensive than the Fighting Sioux? His arguments are flawed and his liberal bias shows. He along with all libs have a double standard

[LB#11]

7NationalTitles, on Jun 21 2006, 12:03 PM, said:

I don't like Nick Coleman and there are many reasons I despise him.

But one thing I found interesting stood out to me in his article. Did anyone else notice that Nick Coleman had a reference to Brokeback Mountain? I'm wondering the symbolism of that but I think we all know why he invoked the movie into his article.....there must be a particular reason, of all the movies ever made, to throw a reference from that one in it.

My wife happened to have on TV the other day and a commercial came on for a movie that I think Nick would have referenced if he had seen the movie..........it was called A Girl Like Me.....a young boy's/man's struggle to live the life of a woman he always wanted. Perhaps that is the type of intervention that Ms. Coleman needs to experience.

Sorry but Nick needs to get off his liberal soapbox and realize that UND will never be as liberal (thank god) as the U of M.

Earlier today I posted on this thread, I probably went a little overboard & the administrator took the post off. Thank you 7NationalTitles for getting my message across. By the way, I don't agree with taking my post off, but I do understand your(administrator) position. It's too bad a dork like Nick Coleman has a forum like the Star Tribune to write his complete bias BS.

[Sioux-cia]

I wish that fellow members would quit with the 'liberal' finger pointing. I'm a bleeding heart liberal and so are many other SS.com members. As many of you know, there may be others who feel as strongly as I do about the name/logo and hostile/abusive issue but there aren't many who feel stronger. That goes for the other 'liberal' SS.com members.

This idiot journalist whiny, 'I need attention' staff person on the StarTrib, obviously knows enough about the NC$$'s edict to write a bunch of partially correct, mostly wrong, hate driven trash but not enough to address any facts. If he had written an article based on facts rather than character assassination, I would have respected his right to express them. Instead he writes drivel that isn't worth what it collects lining the bottom of a bird cage.

[cfm567b27]

Nick Coleman = Pickle Poker

[7NationalTitles]

I wrote Nick Coleman earlier today and he actually replied. But the funny thing of his reply was the hypocrisy in it when compared to what he said in his article today.....the Nazi references and imflammatory accusations leveled against UND and those associated with the pro-name cause. Funny, he did the exact opposite today in his article to what he now said.

Here it is for your amusement:

Nick Coleman to me
More options 12:02 pm (3½ hours ago)

My momma always told me I couldn't act badly in public, even if my little friends were all behaving like jerks. Same with UND and Florida. We're supposed to be better.


>>> "xxxx" <xxxx@gmail.com> 6/21/2006 12:00 PM >>>

- Show quoted text -
Ms. Coleman,
I'm glad you find the Fighting Sioux nickname so offensive. Or that the
current logo is so offensive to you when it was designed and created by a
Native American.....the very person you say it offends. If it was that
offensive, why would a Native American agree to design it for the university
and include many Native American spiritual references in it by the various
colors of the head-dress and face paint that is used by the Native American
depicted on the logo? That doesn't seem like it is as offensive as you make
it out to be.

Your rant may be more logical and relevant had you done a little research or
included references to Native American logos/nicknames in general. I wonder
what your feelings are about the Florida State Seminoles who have a white
guy (not Native American) ride in on a horse before their football games
while holding a flaming spear, riding to mid-field, throw the flaming spear
into the turf, get off his horse, start dancing around trying to imitate a
Native American dance, wave his arm in a tomahawk chop-like motion for the
crowd of 85,000 to join in, and start the crowd of 85,000 to chant like
Native Americans do in their traditional songs. No feelings on that? Must
be because you make no mention of that and how offensive that is.

But you fail to mention this. And in doing so, your article loses
credibility. You need to get rid of your hard-on for UND because they are
not and never will be as liberal as your beloved University of Minnesota.

I was curious as to why you threw a reference to Brokeback Mountain into
your article. Was there another purpose for the reference? Were you trying
to use it as symbolism and trying to tell us something? Perhaps you want to
check out the movie on Lifetime in the next few days.....A Girl Like
Me.....a young boy's struggle to live the life of a girl that he always
wanted.....you might like it. I think that is the intervention that you
need, Ms. Coleman.

Ryan

[The Sicatoka]

I invited Mr. Coleman to read Dr. Kupchella's most recent open letter. I hope he does it.

[sprig]

sounds like Mr. coleman has already shaved his butt and learned to walk backwards.

[sioux7>5]

I to just sent Mr. Idiot a email. I did pose one question to him. What happens when PETA digs into the NCAA and the Gophers have to change their name. Is he going to support that, since it is the right thing to do. This kind of babble just completely pisses me off.

That story have more holes then his head apparently.

I also told mr. coleman that he should visit The Ralph and see what a great facility it is before making a snap judgement.

[dagies]

I not only wrote to Coleman, but also the the Strib's Reader's Representative. Click on the "Reader's Representative" link just above the column for an email address:

http://www.startribu...ory/284029.html





Edit: I received this rather quick response from the Reader's Representative. My letter first:

Quote

Mr. Coleman's column infuriated me in several ways.

1. This quote from his column is a blatant false misrepresentation. "Unfortunately, the "Fighting Sioux" name is popular with wealthy benefactors, some of whom would wear chicken feather headdresses and whoop it up at cocktail parties if they still could." I believe it is at the very least irresponsible and possibly more harmful than that. This sort of thing just doesn't happen. If Nick Coleman actually attended a Fighting Sioux event, sporting or otherwise, he would know this. Yet from his column apparently he can manufacture and throw out any sort of false accusation in an attempt to create any sort of false impression in the reader that he wants. The Star Tribune should take a very dim view of this tactic.

2. Coleman's misreprestation of the situation is clear if you read this letter by UND's President Charles Kupchella:
http://www.universityrelations.UND.edu/log...er_6-07-06.html
I believe Nick Coleman should read this letter.

3. Ralph Engelstad was a collector of WWII memorabellia, including Nazi memorabelia. He had an automobile collection that included one of Stalin's cars, as well as having had acquired General Patton's personal papers (he donated them to UND). These are two examples but he collected more than just that. This doesn't make Engelstad a Nazi, though Coleman tries to leave that impression with the reader. The FBI investigated Engelstad and found no evidence that he was a Nazi. But Coleman can make up whatever he wants, apparently. Again, I believe this is irresponsible at the very least, if not much worse.

I believe Nick Coleman should apologize for this column. And that apology should be in the very same space on the front page as this column was.

Thank you for you consideration.

Her response:

Quote

I've reviewed your concerns about the Coleman column. They strike me more as issues of opinion and commentary than of fact. He makes it clear in the first item that he's opining that the benefactors would wear chicken feathers "if they still could." To the second point, the UND president's letter gives his view of the situation, just as Coleman's column gives his. On the third point, Coleman doesn't say Ralph Engelstad is a Nazi. He writes that Engestad collects Nazi memorabilia * something you also noted. And, he says Englestad celebrated Hitler's birthday by serving cakes decorated with Swastikas. That description is based on reporting of that incident. Based on that, I don't plan to recommend a correction.

Kate Parry
Reader's Representative

[southpaw]

Sioux-cia, on Jun 21 2006, 02:50 PM, said:

I wish that fellow members would quit with the 'liberal' finger pointing. I'm a bleeding heart liberal and so are many other SS.com members. As many of you know, there may be others who feel as strongly as I do about the name/logo and hostile/abusive issue but there aren't many who feel stronger. That goes for the other 'liberal' SS.com members.

i dont think any ss members are trying to throw all liberals in the same boat. obviously, there are big differences between those championing the "change the name" cause and a majority of liberals. however, the general notion of the right to not be offended is becoming more and more mainstream in the democratic party. many of the reasons people want the name dropped are used in other situations by liberals, so it is easy to see this as a democrat/republican issue (somewhat).
when UND alumni are standing on the fence because they don't want to lose votes, to me it becomes a political issue. i used to see it as a common sense vs radical debate, but that's not the case so much as elected officials are taking sides based on the opinions of who they were voted in by. obviously, pomeroy and others feel that there are enough democrats who support dropping the name or they would have taken a harder stance. i'd imagine they thought the number of votes they would gain by being pro-sioux is way less than the number of votes they might lose by being pro-sioux.
so if pomeroy and others see it as a political issue, try to not be offended if others see it the same way. (in any case, i'll try to refrain from attacks on bleeding heart liberals).