[star2city]

Since there are a number of media stories about UND / Sioux name that have not been linked to other threads, thought it might be beneficial to have a thread dedicated to those links:

New Orleans Times-Picayune: PUCK AND COVER

[star2city]

Chicago Tribune: No blarney: Leprechaun must go

Mobile Register:
NCAA more contemptible than mascots

Las Vegas Sun:
Ron Kantowski: Would a Nole by any other name run as fast?

Virginia Pilot:
Hue and cry over nicknames cast in several shades of gray

Lebanon (Pa) Daily News:
Considering the years of violence in Ulster, shouldn’t “Fighting Irish” be considered at least as offensive as “Fighting Sioux?”

Dan Wetzel, Yahoo! Sports:
Here is the simple solution for the University of North Dakota or any other school with a Native American mascot the busybodies at the NCAA have deemed "hostile and abusive."

[Sioux-cia]

Thanks, star2city. Good reading, I especially enjoyed reading Dan Wetzel's info on the NCAA Executive Committe members. You'd thing they would be too busy cleaning their own houses to worry about name of and the art in ours.

[Sioux-cia]

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/arti...421/1006/NEWS01

While this article is for the ban, it points out so many other things that should be given time and attention re the NA 'plight' in America. I see UND's programs and services for NA's and know that we are far ahead off the rest of the country in addressing and actually doing something about those issues. Maybe we should change our name to the Fighting FOR the Sioux.

[Sioux-cia]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...5081300448.html

"We feel like it gives the type of recognition that allows people to identify with the name 'Seminoles,' " Ken Chambers, the outgoing chief of the Great Seminole Tribe of Oklahoma, told the Palm Beach Post.

"Chambers doesn't know what he's talking about," David Narcomey, a member of the Oklahoma tribe's governing council,

[PCM]

From the Selma Times-Journal
NCAA ban needs revamp

Quote

The bottom line is that diversity and being sensitive is a good thing. I'm not going to dispute that. But at the same time, you can get carried away with things.

The NCAA made a blanket ruling without looking at all the factors.

From the Times and Democrat (South Carolina)
Mascot issue destined for court fights

Quote

The NCAA has set itself up for legal action by taking action to encourage college and universities to abandon "hostile" and "abusive" American Indian nicknames for their athletic teams.

The action is too little to force a change and enough to land the governing body of college athletics in court.

From the Daily News Online (Longview, WA):
Brouhaha over team mascots is overblown

Quote

Let's see. My father was half-Irish, half-Norwegian. Can somebody please dig a shallow grave for that freaky little Notre Dame leprechaun? He obviously serves no purpose, other than to prance around like a hyperactive third-grader and cheer on the most overrated college football program in the nation.

And what about "Ragnar," the official mascot of the Minnesota Vikings? The promotional photo on Ragnar's Web site (www.ragnartheviking.com) would lead everyone to believe that all of us with Norwegian ancestry wear horned headgear and elk fur, and grow big, bushy red beards during the football season.

And if you ask me, Ragnar looks like he drinks too much.

[KnowtheFacts]

The NCAA is learning what it's like to be Indian

[BigGame]

KnowtheFacts, on Aug 15 2005, 11:05 AM, said:

The NCAA is learning what it's like to be Indian
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So thats what it's like to be an indian? That can't be very accurate, if that was the case I would think almost everyone can claim they know what it's like to be an indian.

[Sioux-cia]

KnowtheFacts, on Aug 15 2005, 11:05 AM, said:

The NCAA is learning what it's like to be Indian
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This article points out that the use of mascots and derogatory names is insulting. UND does not have a mascot nor is the name Sioux derogatory. The article also points out that people who are for the names do little or nothing for the American Indian. As stated ad nauseam, UND spends millions of dollars on American Indian programs and services.

[The Sicatoka]

From the Dan Wetzel link above:

Quote

This particular decision was handed down by the NCAA Executive Committee, which includes eight representatives from Division I-A schools. Of those eight schools, six have been found guilty of major NCAA infractions since 1989. Not the little stuff – we are talking about big-time cheating. We repeat, six of the eight.

Six of eight? That's like almost more than half if you're an NCAA basketball player at far too many schools.

[Goon]

Quote

Just tell the politically correct set one thing about that Fighting Sioux in your logo:

He's gay.

Here is a knovel Idea.

[Goon]

Quote

FROM INDIAN COUNTRY: It is shameful that the mighty Osceola is portrayed as a mascot. He is represented with fakey ''war paint,'' which he never wore; on an Appaloosa horse, which he never rode; with a Plains Indian war lance, which he never used; acting the fool, which he never was; and performing for non-Indians - which he never, ever did.

FSU may well get its way. They've twisted arms and gained support from the Florida and Oklahoma Seminole governmental leaders, who now have the hard job of explaining to the Seminole people why their nationhood is to be diminished and their children to be raised as mascots.

Am I missing something here? IF the Seminole Indians from Fla don't mind the name and signed a statement saying that they like what FSU is doing with the nick name what is the heck is the big deal? Secondly, so who decides if the Fighting Sioux name is wrong for UND, surely not the NCAA? I say not to the the liberal White hand wringing College professors from the arts and sciences departments (that has nothing better to do than bad mouth their very school they recieve a good pay check from mind you, because they aren't producing any coherant research that anyone wants to read, if you don't approve of UND use of the name leave, why should we keep paying your worthless @$$) or Native American from our state. Hum...

And really this can't be the most pressing issue facing our Native American today or all Americans. If we change the names what the He!! are we going to moan about next? Enough is enough, I am sick and tired of having this leftist drivel shoved down our throats.

This post has been edited by Goon: 15 August 2005 - 08:08 PM

[Goon]

KnowtheFacts, on Aug 15 2005, 12:05 PM, said:

The NCAA is learning what it's like to be Indian
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Just for the record this is a leftist organization and I wouldn't consider it an objective source for your information.

[CoteauRinkRat]

Goon, on Aug 15 2005, 08:56 PM, said:

Quote

Just tell the politically correct set one thing about that Fighting Sioux in your logo:

He's gay.

Here is a knovel Idea.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I thought that was pretty funny, but the last thing we need is the 10 % society mad also.

[star2city]

Goon, on Aug 15 2005, 09:05 PM, said:

And really this can't be the most pressing issue facing our Native American today or all Americans. If we change the names what the He!! are we going to moan about next? Enough is enough, I am sick and tired of having this leftist drivel shoved down our throats.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If anything good can come out of this whole nickname issue, perhaps some important issue to the welfare of Indians can be brought out for public discussion. Like this idea from this Belcourt author in American Chronicles: Alcoholism, the Reservation, and the Government

Quote

Taking under consideration the current situation of the Turtle Mountain Reservation in northern North Dakota, the North Dakota state government should take a page from that of Nebraska and New Mexico. First, banish alcoholic establishments in a five mile radius from Indian Country (which would mean that the Turtle Mountain, Standing Rock, Fort Berthold, Spirit Lake, and Fort Traversie reservations would become dry. )

Hotzebue, one of the larger Native American communities in Alaska, outlawed the sale of alcohol recently and last year noted a forty percent decrease in assaults, sexual assaults, homicide, and suicide.” writes Roger Clawson, a journalist for the Billings Gazette. This goes to show that should a government take the initiative to control the situation and instill types of censure on alcohol, the alcoholism statistics will surely numb.

But then again, some UND BRIDGES prof is probably licking her chops at the prospect of obtaining funding for a study entitled: “The effect of the removal of the “UND Fighting Sioux” nickname on alcoholism rates on Sioux reservations.”

[star2city]

This might just be one of the all-time great convenient backstabs that the Forum, that great protector of 'public' interest, just loves to send UND's way: just roll over and get screwed. The Forum conveniently doesn't comment on the morality of the decision, nor does it find the NCAA's bureaucractic process or agenda (in view of other issues) distasteful, hypocritical, or politically correct.

http://www.in-forum.com/articles/index.cfm...section=Opinion

Curiously, in Florida, which has a number of liberal papers, I have not found one paper that editorialized against the Seminoles nickname. And this is in a state that is much more diverse and where the panhandle (Tallahassee and FSU) is often sneered down at by Gold Coast types.

[PCM]

From the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
Collier: Are nicknames that relevant?

Quote

Still it was almost comical to see the NCAA thumping its chest over what it considers "hostile" and "abusive" Native American nicknames. Here's an organization with more than its share of hostile and abusive athletes, hostile and abusive coaches, hostile and abusive policies affecting both, hostile and abusive price-gouging tactics on ticket buyers, but -- what's that -- Central Michigan is the Chippewas? That's where we draw the line around here.

[PCM]

From KPCnews.com (Indiana):
Political correctness slants NCAA policy

Quote

This offers no compromise, no way out other than to follow the NCAA’s wishes. With the big money at stake in sports like basketball, it almost amounts to extortion.

From NativeTimes.com:
Indian mascot issue hits the front burner

Quote

I believe it is about time that the National Congress of American Indians and the National Indian Education Association censor those Indian tribes that would demean all other Indian nations by allowing their good names to be associated as mascots for America’s fun and games.

From the New Britain Herald:
FSU vs. the NCAA

Quote

There will no doubt be months if not years of litigation before a final decision is made. But in the interim expect a lively debate in the media and elsewhere as to the merits of two diametrically opposed albeit well-reasoned positions. One the one-hand, you have the NCAA taking the stance that just about any use of Native American nomenclature or the depiction of Native American cultural to promote a college’s athletic identity is inherently "hostile and abusive." On the other, FSU, and by implication the many additional member institutions that disagree, claim that the very methods through which the ruling was made are questionable at best and conspiratorial at worst.

From the Bradenton Herald:
Defending an FSU tradition

Quote

"Everybody's entitled to their own opinion, but I don't know what 'hostile and abusive' means," said Bill Durham, a local businessman who created the Chief Osceola and Renegade tradition nearly three decades ago.

"It isn't 'hostile and abusive' to the Seminole Tribe of Florida. A lot of people oppose many things without a thorough understanding, " Durham said.

From the JacksonSun.com:
NCAA aim misguided with a ban on Indian mascots

Quote

Fisher concurred, saying: ''There is compelling information that the vast majority of Native Americans object'' to the use of such names and imagery.

Well, you know what they say about statistics: You can manipulate them any way you want to prove your case. So here are some other stats: In 2003, a Sports Illustrated poll showed that 83 percent of Native Americans who are not living on reservations did not disapprove of such mascots. Among those living on reservations, 67 percent said they had no problem.

Hmmm. I guess the NCAA executive committee has its research and I have mine.

[KnowtheFacts]

PCM, on Aug 15 2005, 10:58 PM, said:

From the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
Collier: Are nicknames that relevant?

Quote

Still it was almost comical to see the NCAA thumping its chest over what it considers "hostile" and "abusive" Native American nicknames. Here's an organization with more than its share of hostile and abusive athletes, hostile and abusive coaches, hostile and abusive policies affecting both, hostile and abusive price-gouging tactics on ticket buyers, but -- what's that -- Central Michigan is the Chippewas? That's where we draw the line around here.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If its not that big of a deal, then lets change it and move on.

[PCM]

KnowtheFacts, on Aug 16 2005, 09:21 AM, said:

If its not that big of a deal, then lets change it and move on.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If it's not that big of deal, leave it and move on.