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The Sicatoka

Nothing on the Horizon

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The Horizon League gives "the cold shoulder" to South Dakota State University, similar to what the Missouri Valley Conference did the week before.

http://www.grandforks.com/mld/grandforks/sports/8941972.htm

"My understanding was that if (SDSU is) not in a conference on Sept. 1, that the Board of Regents would pull out the rug from underneath South Dakota State. For them (SDSU) to say it's not a deadline, that's wrong." -- South Dakota State Sen. Clarence Kooistra, R-Garretson

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It is rather fascinating that media and fans of former NCC schools continue to think that their past athletic performance and current academic and land-grant status have much of anything to do with obtaining Div I conference affiliation. Those are official lines of University Presidents, but the bottom line is other conference members require a monetarily gain if a school is added. When the ACC added Miami, Va Tech, and Boston College, it was all about more money, which a conference football championship game provides. With the addition of those three schools, the ACC lost academic credibility and its basketball tradition was cheapened.

If NDSU or SDSU showed a business plan that would financially benefit the Mid-Con or Big Sky athletic departments , NDSU and SDSU would be accepted this summer. But in reality, the athletic budgets of schools in those conferences get harmed, not helped, by expanding to Fargo and Brookings. The business plan for the Great West was compelling for all schools involved, so it happened. Until Taylor and Oien can show a compelling business plan that helps Mid-Con or Big Sky conference schools, like guaranteed increases in visiting paying fans or outright subsidies, no conference membership will be forthcoming.

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It is always sort of fun to prognosticate, so here goes another set:

1. 2004: Mid-Continent adds Denver.

2. 2005: Big Sky adds Southern Utah to its membership. Montana’s issues on academics are overriden by other conference members and concern that Sac State will leave.

3. 2005: Mid-Continent adds Northern Colorado (football stays in Great West) as a travel partner for Denver and declares a moratorium on expansion, saying “ten is enough”.

4. 2005: Readily apparent that the WAC is courting UC-Davis as a future member, Sac State stays in Big Sky, keeping the membership ranks at nine. Great West loses its shot at future automatic bid with only five members, and with UC-Davis moving to the WAC in 2007 the Great West will only have four members.

5. In 2006, SDSU, beset by scandal, character issues, financial woes, the dropping of athletic programs, a lack of conference affiliation and a change in vision by a new president, announces a move back to Div II and reseeks membership in the North Central Conference. A last-ditch funding attempt by SDSU in the state legislature to have both SDSU and USD funded at Div I levels was defeated. The NCC accepts SDSU for the 2008 season, and partners them with Northern State, who was accepted into the NCC in for 2006 season, as was UN-Kearney. The travel partners will be USD-Augie, UNO-UNK, SDSU-NSU, UND-UMD, SCSU-MSUM.

6. NDSU, still awaiting a conference affiliation (except for the four-team, soon to be three-team, Great West Conference), stubbornly clings to Div I status. They have had modest success in wrestling and I-AA football, but their men’s and once-proud women’s basketball programs have especially experienced difficult times: no home opponents above the 250 RPI rank, extensive travel, and loss of morale. The loss of SDSU to Division II raises Div I costs and, lacking a travel partner, further reduces their conference affiliation chances. By 2007, if the amount of money spent on Div I from Div II levels had been allocated to facilities improvement, a revamped BSA would have been paid for. Instead, the BSA is still a bleachered-quonset structure that conference search committees have shuddered at in disgust. In desperation, needing a travel partner and an association with a respected program, the bisson turn their eyes northward to the very school that they wanted to leave in the dust. The Fighting Sioux, dominating Div II, with new facilities to showcase all their sports, are without question a compelling addition to any mid-major conference. On their knees, begging forgiveness for past transgressions, the bisson administration ;) “proposes” an alliance.

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The Fighting Sioux, dominating Div II, with new facilities to showcase all their sports, are without question a compelling addition to any mid-major conference. On their knees, begging forgiveness for past transgressions, the bisson administration 

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It never ceases to amaze me that fans of North Dakota schools think that North Dakota has the population to support 2 d-I schools, but south dakota, with a population of over 130,000 more, and rising, compared to North Dakotas, which is declining, won't even be able to support one D-I institution.
If population was the determining factor, UND and NDSU would be smaller than USD and SDSU. They are not. North Dakota schools have made more significant inroads into gaining allegiances of Minnesotan’s than South Dakota schools have. About 30% of UND students are Minnesota natives and I would guarantee you that UND's name recognition in the Twin Cities is higher than that of either South Dakota school.

Give me a financial reason that the Mid con wouldn't add two more schools and change over to a two division conference. There isn't any. That was the stupidest thing I have read. They'll either add four schools, or stay where there at now.

Denver was originally added to the Sunbelt Conference because Denver U has a disproportionate share of executives within the cable and satellite TV industries (which have corporate headquarters in metro south Denver.) The influence of these same Denver U alumni executives can help create cable TV contracts for a conference, where none existed before. At the very least, the conference benefits with increased exposure, if not also financially. Northern Colorado would be a natural partner, so that travel expenses are minimized (two for one). Bringing in two more schools (to twelve) decreases the prospects of any one school going to the Big Dance by 20% and divides the conference revenue sharing pie among two more hungry mouths. Twelve makes economic sense when a conference has football or when a conference gets multiple basketball bids, neither of which applies to the Mid-Con.

Not by 2007. I would believe 2015 or beyond maybe, depending on California's financial situation.
If Cal-Davis alumni come through, it will be in this decade. The WAC wants UC-Davis and probably even Cal Poly-SLO as an insurance policy against future Mountain West raids.

Won't ever happen. They'll (SDSU) change football to non-scholarship and work on basketball before they crawl back to the NCC.

This actually wouldn’t surprise me. SDSU=Drake?

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Bringing in two more schools (to twelve) decreases the prospects of any one school going to the Big Dance by 20% and divides the conference revenue sharing pie among two more hungry mouths. Twelve makes economic sense when a conference has football or when a conference gets multiple basketball bids, neither of which applies to the Mid-Con.
Look at it this way... if a school brings in $300,000 (I think thats way too high, but for arguments sake just take it) for a one in done in the tournament (pretty normal for the mid-con I think) and you divide that by 10 that comes out to 30 K per school. If there are 12 schools in the conference that $300,000 gets divided into $25,000 from the conference, which means theres a 5,000 dollar loss for having two additional schools. If you divide the conference into two divisions I would be willing to bet that the 5,000 is more than made up in savings from travel expenses. If denver is added I can't see how SDSU and NDSU won't join also, its too much travel for the southern schools to go to denver. A north/south division conference would make more sense.

If population was the determining factor, UND and NDSU would be smaller than USD and SDSU. They are not. North Dakota schools have made more significant inroads into gaining allegiances of Minnesotan

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On their knees, begging forgiveness for past transgressions, the bisson administration  ;) “proposes” an alliance.

Why not just say what you really mean, the NDSU Prez performing falliato on the entire board at UND just to get them to move their athletics up?? :(;);) Come on, admit it!! You where all thinking about it!! ;);)

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I think the city in which a school is located in is a better indicator than the entire state. Not to mention (like it was mentioned above) that the ND schools bring in tons of minnesota students every year.

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I thought a long time ago that UND people were done talking about NDSU? ;)

Doesn't the constant trashing of NDSU get old for anyone? Is there nothing else to chat about?

Also, why don't most of those who give their opinion, misguided or not on both sides of the issue, just lay it out and leave it at that? If you want NDSU to fail, then just state that and get on with life.....or if you want UND to become the D1 wannabe's, then say it and quit pulling old news into the forum.

I think I may be preaching in an empty church tho, so.....whatever. I am going back to Bisonville.com and leave you all to your thoughts. Just some ideas to ponder :( .

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I thought a long time ago that UND people were done talking about NDSU? ;)

Doesn't the constant trashing of NDSU get old for anyone? Is there nothing else to chat about?

Considering “Tuk” drives around in a vehicle with a “H8UND” license plate, this has got to be the most hilariously hypocritical statement yet!! These same fans complaining about my posts were just a few weeks ago rejoicing in the bissonville forum about anti-UND personalized license plates, like UND WHO and NOT UND. You’d be hard pressed to find any self-respecting UND fan that would disgrace their vehicle with anti-NDSU venom, as we have positive things to be thankful for.

Also, why don't most of those who give their opinion, misguided or not on both sides of the issue, just lay it out and leave it at that?  If you want NDSU to fail, then just state that and get on with life.....or if you want UND to become the D1 wannabe's, then say it and quit pulling old news into the forum.

Perhaps the real issue is that my postings had real substance to them, something that Div I cheerleading posts on Bisonville severely lack. Considering that my earlier posting correctly predicted: (a) the Big Sky rejection of NDSU/SDSU, (b) the formation of the Great West conference one year before it happened, © the formation of an independent Div I alliance for 2005-6 (which Coach Miles has confirmed), perhaps the focus should be how to avoid my prognistications from coming true. After all, what could I, a lowly UND grad, possibly know? It is not like I have access to significant figures in the college sports world, like ESPN announcers, or sportswriters, or Div I AD s and coaches, or Bowl representatives, do I? If the same ideas came from an NDSU grad, would you run him out of town? Surely NDSU graduates are capable of harnessing some energy and creative and constructive thought to prove my prognostications wrong, are they not?

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SDSU and NDSU are going to be attempting to up there academics 

Starting with the English departments.

HAHAHAHAHA! Nice catch "sprig"! You really got me on that one, and it has to be the most original joke ever posted on a online message board. I can't believe nobody has thought of that before. Because I'm sure that every other post on this board has perfect sentence structure and grammar, otherwise all of the errors would have been pointed out right? I guess the only thing I can do to top that would be to look through all of your posts and find an error and than point it out for everyone to see, because that would be funny right? Oh, wait, it would be more like acting like an ass, I guess. If there are errors in my posts its because this is an online forum, and all I need to do is communicate my ideas with you, so if you don't understand what I'm saying, say something, otherwise don't, because I don't care that much if I used there, or their, or ANY OTHER ERRORS.

I think the city in which a school is located in is a better indicator than the entire state. Not to mention (like it was mentioned above) that the ND schools bring in tons of minnesota students every year.

Wow. Thats the stupidest thing I've ever heard. I mean I guess UND must be better than SDSU, or the University of Kansas, because it is in a city bigger than both of them, right? I mean how could a dump like Lawerance Kansas ever be able to support an actual D-I school? It probably can't. I can't wait until KU comes crying back to D-II begging for a conference, because Lawerence can't support it. UMKC in Kansas city though, they've got it made. They'll be pounding KU and no time. Oh, wait.

City size helps in some cases, but it definitely doesn't determine anything. Think about it. Why do South and North Dakota not have any D-I schools up to this point? Why does California have over 40? Why does texas have more D-I's than Montana? Why does North Carolina have more D-I's than Nebraska? State population to support the schools is needed. If I were a UND fan I would be screaming for the administration to move up, and to do it now. There's only room for one decent D-I in North Dakota, and NDSU has a head start now on taking that position. If UND doesn't do something their going to miss their chance to be North Dakotas flagship school, and will be playing second fiddle to NDSU until the population doubles in 75 years, if ever. If UND makes the move in 5 years after NDSU is more established it will either 1. fail or 2. cause UND and NDSU to cellar dwelling D-I schools for the next half century. I think all of you know that too, you don't want to admit it to yourselves.

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So is the University of South Dakota, however unlike their land grant counterparts, they have chosen the radical step of directing the funding to academics itself ;) , instead of a trickle-down method of using athletics to pull up academics.

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If I were a UND fan I would be screaming for the administration to move up, and to do it now.  There's only room for one decent D-I in North Dakota, and NDSU has a head start now on taking that position.  If UND doesn't do something their going to miss their chance to be North Dakotas flagship school, and will be playing second fiddle to NDSU until the population doubles in 75 years, if ever.  If UND makes the move in 5 years after NDSU is more established it will either 1. fail or 2. cause UND and NDSU to cellar dwelling D-I schools for the next half century.  I think all of you know that too, you don't want to admit it to yourselves.

aff:

There is a time for everything, and a season for every activity under the sun

Believe it or not, Aff, I understand your points. In the early 1990’s, when the FargoDome was just built, when NDSU football and women’s basketball were at higher competitive levels, when NCAA reclassification periods were shorter (and the Mid-Con desperate for members), if NDSU would have gone Division I, they would have left UND in the dust. At that time, UND needed facility upgrades everywhere, hockey was down, budgets were struggling, and then the flood hit. NDSU missed their opportune moment to move up. At present, I don’t think UND supporters are exactly shaking in their boots worried about NDSU’s success in Div I. In 1992, they had reason to be concerned.

Now, the Ralph has changed everything. UND is biding their time, building up facilities, endowments and their programs. If and when a conference membership opportunity becomes available that is beneficial to the school (i.e. the conference must include some level of recognition in the Minneapolis media), the school will move up. I’ve always believed the ideal potential conference for UND is the Horizon, if a Minnesota school (such as UMD) moved up also. The Horizon, wanting to add Minnesota to its media footprint, would be interested, but would not be interested an NDSU/SDSU pair or a UND/non-Minnesota pairing.

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So is the University of South Dakota, however unlike their land grand counterparts, they have chosen the radical step of directing the funding to academics itself ;) , instead of a trickle-down method of using athletics to pull up academics.

The move to DI by NDSU was preceeded by Chapman's RI plan. With over $100 million in research funding and engineering programs winning national competitions, I'd say the athletic department is catching up to the academic department with a move to DI.

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Just wanted to correct this Sicatoka, read the Argus leader article if it doesn't sound this way in the Grand forks Paper

"My understanding was that if (SDSU is) not in a conference on Sept. 1, that the Board of Regents would pull out the rug from underneath South Dakota State. For them (Not SDSU, the South Dakota Board of Regents) to say it's not a deadline, that's wrong." -- South Dakota State Sen. Clarence Kooistra, R-Garretson

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Good prediction and insight are fine, but these topics usually go into personal attacks and the same statements.  The fact that you are a UND grad means nothing.  I am just saying why go beyond the headlines or the analysis?  Would the same be done if it were GVSU or Omaha?

*Bad French Accent*

Your mother was a hamster, and your father smelled of elderberrier. I thumb my nose at you, and fart in your general direction.

*/Bad French Accent*

Sorry Tuk, you just had to mention GVSU and so I just had to prove your point for you. ;);):(

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Just wanted to correct this Sicatoka, read the Argus leader article if it doesn't sound this way in the Grand forks Paper

"My understanding was that if (SDSU is) not in a conference on Sept. 1, that the Board of Regents would pull out the rug from underneath South Dakota State. For them (Not SDSU, the South Dakota Board of Regents) to say it's not a deadline, that's wrong." -- South Dakota State Sen. Clarence Kooistra, R-Garretson

aff: Does either "them" matter when the person making the statement is a part of the group that ultimately controls the purse-strings (i.e. the state senate)? The statement shows what is on the mind of some of those in the SD legislature.

'star2city' hit an issue that matters: Media. Conferences want exposure. Denver is one of the fastest growing areas into the country. What conference wouldn't want to tap into that population base. That's a big advantage to the Denver and Northern Colorado.

There is probably some merit to the hypothetical timeline put forth by 'star2city'. I could easily forsee the 2004 and 2005 suppositions. The rest? Too politically charged. I'll leave it alone.

What I don't see in there is the shake-up in the NCAA that seems to be looming on the horizon.

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I can't believe nobody has thought of that before. Because I'm sure that every other post on this board has perfect sentence structure and grammar, otherwise all of the errors would have been pointed out right?

If it makes you feel any better, bigmrg74 misspelled fellatio. :D

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"My understanding was that if (SDSU is) not in a conference on Sept. 1, that the Board of Regents would pull out the rug from underneath South Dakota State. For them (Not SDSU, the South Dakota Board of Regents) to say it's not a deadline, that's wrong." -- South Dakota State Sen. Clarence Kooistra, R-Garretson 

aff: Does either "them" matter when the person making the statement is a part of the group that ultimately controls the purse-strings (i.e. the state senate)? The statement shows what is on the mind of some of those in the SD legislature.

Yeah, it does matter, because one implies that SDSU is blowing off a deadline, while the other implies that there really is no deadline. To put SDSU in for the board of regents makes it seem like there really is a deadline that SDSU isn't prepared for, when the truth is that there is no deadline for the school to worry about. Also, I seriously doubt that the opinion of the representitive from vermillion is whats on the mind of any representative or senator besides himself. The guy is a voice piece of USD.

Media. Conferences want exposure. Denver is one of the fastest growing areas into the country. What conference wouldn't want to tap into that population base. That's a big advantage to the Denver and Northern Colorado.

Nobody has yet shown me that theres any reason that SDSU and NDSU wouldn't also be added. See my above post.

So is the University of South Dakota, however unlike their land grant counterparts, they have chosen the radical step of directing the funding to academics itself  , instead of a trickle-down method of using athletics to pull up academics.

Show me one article where it shows increased academic funding for USD. The only thing I can find about that school is declining enrollment, and a lot of bull about the "harvard of the prarie". USD talks a lot, but doesn't fund anything (see baseball).

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