Popular Post Oxbow6 Posted May 30, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted May 30, 2018 9 minutes ago, jdub27 said: Well minus UND having to make huge cuts under state orders while the a member of the REA board throws a fit when they are asked to do the same by renegotiating an annually renewable contract.... Let's see...........a government run entity that's a train wreck vs a private run entity that can take their ball and go home whenever they want. Pretty simple math here. 1 7 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UND1983 Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 16 minutes ago, Oxbow6 said: Let's see...........a government run entity that's a train wreck vs a private run entity that can take their ball and go home whenever they want. Pretty simple math here. But, that private entity takes money from the public one, then gives back whatever they feel like. If they were only giving at the end of the year UND would have no argument. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fightingsioux4life Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 33 minutes ago, Oxbow6 said: Let's see...........a government run entity that's a train wreck vs a private run entity that can take their ball and go home whenever they want. Pretty simple math here. Where will this "private entity" go? UND hockey is the main tenant. If they aren't there, the arena will bleed red ink. Unless you believe in Fetch and his insane AHL franchise theories. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Yote 53 Posted May 30, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted May 30, 2018 On 5/24/2018 at 4:07 PM, BobIwabuchiFan said: Thanks for the honest feedback...It's a tough pill for many to swallow at this time and given the fervor of the "Get on board with the Hawks or you are a hater of all things UND" crowd, we will most likely be living with this embarrassment for many years to come. I personally don't mind the fighting hawks name, but the logo looks like it was done by someone who had an A going into the Marketing final and mailed it in knowing they could still pass the class with a C final grade. I just call it as I see it. I actually do want you guys to get past this nickname thing so when you come into the conference this subject is still not tearing you guys apart. I just don't ever see it happening with the generic Hawks name. It is going to take a generation to literally die off for the Hawk name to be accepted, even then it will be "meh", and you guys can't spend another 20+ years fighting over this. That's why I said sacrifice the Hawk and start over. Nobody is a die-hard Hawk supporter, they would convert easy, and it would also appease the Sioux crowd who has to realize by now that nickname is never coming back. It would be an offering of peace as a generic nickname like a Hawk variation is what was feared most by the Fighting Sioux crowd. The nickname should be relevant to North Dakota, have some historical significance, be an animal or plant, something that is uniquely North Dakotan. All of the other Dakota schools have nicknames like that. UND broke their own rules they set up when determining a nickname by going with something generic. You want my personal opinion, I would have gone with Roughriders and not looked back. North Dakota is the Roughrider State. It's unique & identifiable and has some excellent potential for logos and branding. Drawback is there is a local high school and a USHL team with that name, but the vast majority of NCAA fans knows nothing about either of those entities. That is a drawback that could have easily been overcome. These are just my opinions. You all have to figure this out on your own though. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fightingsioux4life Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 10 minutes ago, Yote 53 said: You want my personal opinion, I would have gone with Roughriders and not looked back. North Dakota is the Roughrider State. It's unique & identifiable and has some excellent potential for logos and branding. Drawback is there is a local high school and a USHL team with that name, but the vast majority of NCAA fans knows nothing about either of those entities. That is a drawback that could have easily been overcome. I voted Roughriders on all three ballots. But the adherents of the "Climax-Fisher Rule" refused to even consider it. #lostopportunity 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdub27 Posted May 30, 2018 Author Share Posted May 30, 2018 1 hour ago, Oxbow6 said: Let's see...........a government run entity that's a train wreck vs a private run entity that can take their ball and go home whenever they want. Pretty simple math here. It's not a private entity, it's a non-profit, set up for the sole purpose of benefiting the public entity and on top of that, derives the majority of their income from the public entity (but still demands the same share of revenue while the public entity is seeing significant cuts). It's not as black and white as you want to make it seem. The REA can't "take their ball and go home" in any shape or form outside of future donations. While possibly significant, that is their only play at this point. I'm not defending some of the decision UND has made, particularly in regards to spending, but the concern about their being no checks and balances on how the REA spends some funds seems legitimate, particularly when the decisions directly impact. Isn't a big part of this whole argument UND trying to fix it's cash flow and become less of a train wreck? If the REA can't figure out a compromise, it's going to be a mess for everyone with no winners. The ideal situation is to have the contract extended and allow the current system to remain in place beyond the 30 year deadline. However if UND (rightly) feels like the REA isn't operating like they should, then it will be UND taking their ball and going home. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 11 minutes ago, Yote 53 said: You want my personal opinion, I would have gone with Roughriders and not looked back. North Dakota is the Roughrider State. It's unique & identifiable and has some excellent potential for logos and branding. Drawback is there is a local high school and a USHL team with that name, but the vast majority of NCAA fans knows nothing about either of those entities. That is a drawback that could have easily been overcome. As a guy who supported that name to the bitter end, I will tell you you are missing one drawback: In today's politically charged environment someone would find one thing about TR (the origin of that name) that is untoward by today's standards and it all would come apart. In light of that reality we are left with mundane and milquetoast, also known as inherently safe. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFlop Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 46 minutes ago, UND1983 said: But, that private entity takes money from the public one, then gives back whatever they feel like. If they were only giving at the end of the year UND would have no argument. People are so quick to forget that at the end of the day there was a 100 million $$$ arena that was donated that had no chance of being built with public funds. 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oxbow6 Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 2 minutes ago, The Sicatoka said: As a guy who supported that name to the bitter end, I will tell you you are missing one drawback: In today's politically charged environment someone would find one thing about TR (the origin of that name) that is untoward by today's standards and it all would come apart. In light of that reality we are left with mundane and milquetoast, also known as inherently safe. Correct...someone sucking their thumb, wearing a diaper and curled up in the fetal position would have spoke up. Where's Leigh Jeanotte when you need him??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fightingsioux4life Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 5 minutes ago, TheFlop said: People are so quick to forget that at the end of the day there was a 100 million $$$ arena that was donated that had no chance of being built with public funds. Nobody has forgotten that. But that does not give the spoiled rotten daughter of a multimillionaire the right to run UND from Vegas. The line has to be drawn somewhere and Kennedy has drawn it. Good for him. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMSioux Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 45 minutes ago, Yote 53 said: I just call it as I see it. I actually do want you guys to get past this nickname thing so when you come into the conference this subject is still not tearing you guys apart. I just don't ever see it happening with the generic Hawks name. It is going to take a generation to literally die off for the Hawk name to be accepted, even then it will be "meh", and you guys can't spend another 20+ years fighting over this. That's why I said sacrifice the Hawk and start over. Nobody is a die-hard Hawk supporter, they would convert easy, and it would also appease the Sioux crowd who has to realize by now that nickname is never coming back. It would be an offering of peace as a generic nickname like a Hawk variation is what was feared most by the Fighting Sioux crowd. The nickname should be relevant to North Dakota, have some historical significance, be an animal or plant, something that is uniquely North Dakotan. All of the other Dakota schools have nicknames like that. UND broke their own rules they set up when determining a nickname by going with something generic. You want my personal opinion, I would have gone with Roughriders and not looked back. North Dakota is the Roughrider State. It's unique & identifiable and has some excellent potential for logos and branding. Drawback is there is a local high school and a USHL team with that name, but the vast majority of NCAA fans knows nothing about either of those entities. That is a drawback that could have easily been overcome. These are just my opinions. You all have to figure this out on your own though. You forgot the highly paid east coast marketing firm said Roughrider was also the name of a condom (USC Trojans are on line. 1). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andtheHomeoftheSIOUX!! Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 I still say Northern Pike was the way to go. State fish, unique name, aggressive creature, lots of positives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petey23 Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 36 minutes ago, fightingsioux4life said: Nobody has forgotten that. But that does not give the spoiled rotten daughter of a multimillionaire the right to run UND from Vegas. The line has to be drawn somewhere and Kennedy has drawn it. Good for him. envy is not a good look. I am pretty sure you don't know her personally. It seems she has continued her Father's charitable ways and has helped give away more money to charity than most here will make in a lifetime. 7 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fightingsioux4life Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 Just now, petey23 said: envy is not a good look. Envy? Why would I want to grow up to be a spoiled rotten entitled brat who thinks the world should just give her what she wants? Apparently, dad's lessons on how to treat people didn't sink in. 1 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWSiouxMN Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 20 minutes ago, CMSioux said: You forgot the highly paid east coast marketing firm said Roughrider was also the name of a condom (USC Trojans are on line. 1). and used Urban Dictionary..... where anybody can put anything for a definition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darell1976 Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 1 hour ago, fightingsioux4life said: I voted Roughriders on all three ballots. But the adherents of the "Climax-Fisher Rule" refused to even consider it. #lostopportunity I would have had a tough time yelling, “Go Riders”. Nope can’t do it, and I am sure a lot of GFC alum would feel that way. I entered the name Jets but maybe being too close to Winnipeg was the reason to axe the name. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darell1976 Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 1 hour ago, Yote 53 said: I just call it as I see it. I actually do want you guys to get past this nickname thing so when you come into the conference this subject is still not tearing you guys apart. I just don't ever see it happening with the generic Hawks name. It is going to take a generation to literally die off for the Hawk name to be accepted, even then it will be "meh", and you guys can't spend another 20+ years fighting over this. That's why I said sacrifice the Hawk and start over. Nobody is a die-hard Hawk supporter, they would convert easy, and it would also appease the Sioux crowd who has to realize by now that nickname is never coming back. It would be an offering of peace as a generic nickname like a Hawk variation is what was feared most by the Fighting Sioux crowd. The nickname should be relevant to North Dakota, have some historical significance, be an animal or plant, something that is uniquely North Dakotan. All of the other Dakota schools have nicknames like that. UND broke their own rules they set up when determining a nickname by going with something generic. You want my personal opinion, I would have gone with Roughriders and not looked back. North Dakota is the Roughrider State. It's unique & identifiable and has some excellent potential for logos and branding. Drawback is there is a local high school and a USHL team with that name, but the vast majority of NCAA fans knows nothing about either of those entities. That is a drawback that could have easily been overcome. These are just my opinions. You all have to figure this out on your own though. Has USD and SDSU always had the same nickname of Coyotes and Jackrabbits? Even NDSU had 2 nicknames prior to Bison. The problem with us is we had a nickname for around 80 years so any name is going to take time to get use to. People are warming up to the name it’s the logo that the real argument begins. Remember the nickname is 3 years old, while the logo is 2 years old. Our local high school’s nickname is 24 years old and it’s now a household name so it is going to take time whether it’s 5, 10, or 20 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oxbow6 Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 2 hours ago, jdub27 said: It's not a private entity, it's a non-profit, set up for the sole purpose of benefiting the public entity and on top of that, derives the majority of their income from the public entity (but still demands the same share of revenue while the public entity is seeing significant cuts). It's not as black and white as you want to make it seem. The REA can't "take their ball and go home" in any shape or form outside of future donations. While possibly significant, that is their only play at this point. I'm not defending some of the decision UND has made, particularly in regards to spending, but the concern about their being no checks and balances on how the REA spends some funds seems legitimate, particularly when the decisions directly impact. Isn't a big part of this whole argument UND trying to fix it's cash flow and become less of a train wreck? If the REA can't figure out a compromise, it's going to be a mess for everyone with no winners. The ideal situation is to have the contract extended and allow the current system to remain in place beyond the 30 year deadline. However if UND (rightly) feels like the REA isn't operating like they should, then it will be UND taking their ball and going home. Correct....I could have used a better description. Was trying to differentiate that one is a government lead circus and one is not. To the last two highlighted points...that 2+2 won't get you 4 at any point in time. IF at any point UND is fully responsible for any facility it's hockey, BB or FB programs play in........yikes!!! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yote 53 Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 USD has been the Coyotes from the very beginning: The Coyote is a myth of unknown origin. It is impossible to assign an exact date for the association of "Coyote" with the school's athletic teams or other features. The earliest use of the word "Coyote" as the state animal of South Dakota, came from a horse race at a military fort in 1863. The Sioux Indians called themselves "The Dacotah" from which the Dakota Territory was derived. When a Dakota cavalry horse outran a larger horse entered by the Iowa Sixth Cavalry, the Iowans shouted, "Look at the kiote run." The name stuck. South Dakota, the Coyote State, is also known as the Sunshine State for its larger number of cloudless days. The "Coyote" was customarily assumed to be the mascot of the University of South Dakota without any official action by the USD student body. Dr. Cedric Cummings, in his book, "The University of South Dakota," wrote: "First Of the University annuals was published in the spring on 1902 when William Williamson Jr., is editor in chief, fixing the name "Coyote" upon its progency. The use of the term by the yearbook helped to popularize it. Another symbol originating in this period was the University seals, first imprinted on the "Coyote" published in the spring of 1903. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siouxphan27 Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 2 hours ago, The Sicatoka said: As a guy who supported that name to the bitter end, I will tell you you are missing one drawback: In today's politically charged environment someone would find one thing about TR (the origin of that name) that is untoward by today's standards and it all would come apart. In light of that reality we are left with mundane and milquetoast, also known as inherently safe. Glad you finally agree with me on probably the most important-among many- reasons why this name was a bad choice. All it would take is a few people pointing out Teddy Roosevelt was a white guy with a gun chasing Indians. As we all know, facts don't matter. Heck, facts not mattering is how we became the Roughrider state in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobIwabuchiFan Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 4 hours ago, The Sicatoka said: Again, I've linked to the Form 990s for the related entities --> PREGO! It's in there. As I recall, the only folks drawing compensation are folks that should be (i.e. the general manager and the accountant/CFO of the arena). Form 990 for 2017 for REA-related organizations ....UND Arena Services EIN: 14-1846178 UND Sports Facilities EIN: 36-4511153 Ralph Engelstad Arene EIN: 11-3666663 See Part VII of the form. I guess I'm sarcastically referring to her and her associates who are taking money...sounds like that is not what is going on... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 37 minutes ago, Siouxphan27 said: Glad you finally agree with me on probably the most important-among many- reasons why this name was a bad choice. All it would take is a few people pointing out Teddy Roosevelt was a white guy with a gun chasing Indians. As we all know, facts don't matter. Heck, facts not mattering is how we became the Roughrider state in the first place. I loved the name; I accept that it would be just about as easy of a target in today's political climate as the old nickname. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tnt Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 3 hours ago, The Sicatoka said: As a guy who supported that name to the bitter end, I will tell you you are missing one drawback: In today's politically charged environment someone would find one thing about TR (the origin of that name) that is untoward by today's standards and it all would come apart. In light of that reality we are left with mundane and milquetoast, also known as inherently safe. Sure someone would, but then they would need to protest the National Park and everything else that was named after him. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNDBIZ Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 2 minutes ago, tnt said: Sure someone would, but then they would need to protest the National Park and everything else that was named after him. Just a matter of time now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tnt Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 1 minute ago, UNDBIZ said: Just a matter of time now. Then start ripping down the Lincoln Memorial and all buildings named after political figures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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