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Kennedy vs. Engelstad Foundation: GF herald feature

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There's a difference between eventually transitioning to a logo and having it shoved down your throat.  Is it really that important to have it at center court?  Really?  A quick google image search turns up many courts with the school name or initial(s) rather than their nickname/logo:  Duke, Denver, Minnesota, Michigan, SDSU...

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1 minute ago, hky said:

There's a difference between eventually transitioning to a logo and having it shoved down your throat.  Is it really that important to have it at center court?  Really?  A quick google image search turns up many courts with the school name or initial(s) rather than their nickname/logo:  Duke, Denver, Minnesota, Michigan, SDSU...

UND is trying to push a consistent identity and get fans used to seeing the logo. When fans get used to seeing the logo, they associate und and the logo with one another. When fans do that, they decide to express support for und by wearing the logo. Basketball and volleyball players, coaches, and (most) fans are already on board with the new logo. There's no excuse for refusing to place the logo at center court.

Is it really that important to not have the logo at center court? 

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12 minutes ago, UNDBIZ said:

UND is trying to push a consistent identity and get fans used to seeing the logo. When fans get used to seeing the logo, they associate und and the logo with one another. When fans do that, they decide to express support for und by wearing the logo. Basketball and volleyball players, coaches, and (most) fans are already on board with the new logo. There's no excuse for refusing to place the logo at center court.

Is it really that important to not have the logo at center court? 

As far as the court goes. No its a battle that could have been "conseeded" with little to no effect on the "segment "majority" of the REA customers.

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48 minutes ago, Frozen4sioux said:

Like it or not, this is in FACT,  not true.

ALL sides of the argument agree in this point.

Arguing about who does and who doesn't has taken up pages but the legacy obviously means something more to a program of certain distinction.

LIke it or not - I will restate and say excluding hockey - the Majority.. since you like to bold things .....of athletes playing at UND, and coming in the future do not identify with the old logo or name - but they will leave their legacy as fighting hawks and will do it proudly wearing that uniform for a University that they will love after four years as much as everyone else here does. 

I am curious though - as one year leads to another and another if the logo or name will make a difference to Hockey players in H.S right now that may play at UND 3 or 5 years from now.  They will obviously know the history and legacy of the program - that doesn't change - but will they care which name is placed where - a thought only, not offering an opinion (before someone else has a coronary at that computer)

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I keep hearing that the legacy is more important to a certain program.  Is it more important to the players who are actually playing the game or the people who had there identity taken from them by the NCAA?  Because those people will always be Fighting Sioux, that can not be taken away -  but the future generations will be Fighting Hawks and their experience should not be any different from those who came before them because of a logo battle they have nothing to do with. 

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1 hour ago, UNDBIZ said:

No, they didn't. Football had it on their jersey and there was a banner in the alerus. Basketball had it on their shorts.

Also, the school didn't lack a unified identity prior to 2012.

I'll concede that the logo was on the banners at the Alerus and even the Hyslop Pool if I recall correctly. But the logo did not appear on the jersey of any non-hockey team while I was a student (07-12). From what I've been told this was true prior to me attending as well and a Google search shows that the 2001 championship uniforms didn't display the Sioux logo or name.

 

Speaking of Google, it does appear the word Sioux appeared on the basketball jerseys through 2011. Logos don't often make it onto basketball jerseys so I'll concede that point in terms of their jerseys. 

Edited by Rebel_Sioux
Correction

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3 hours ago, Rebel_Sioux said:

I'll concede that the logo was on the banners at the Alerus and even the Hyslop Pool if I recall correctly. But the logo did not appear on the jersey of any non-hockey team while I was a student (07-12). From what I've been told this was true prior to me attending as well and a Google search shows that the 2001 championship uniforms didn't display the Sioux logo or name.

 

Speaking of Google, it does appear the word Sioux appeared on the basketball jerseys through 2011. Logos don't often make it onto basketball jerseys so I'll concede that point in terms of their jerseys. 

329479.jpg

2009

 

http://www.undsports.com/PhotoAlbum.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=13500&PALBID=21914

2008 vs Texas A&M-Kingsville

Logo came off in 2010 (which was the original deadline for the Indian tribes to give their permission per the settlement)

 

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2 hours ago, Rebel_Sioux said:

I'll concede that the logo was on the banners at the Alerus and even the Hyslop Pool if I recall correctly. But the logo did not appear on the jersey of any non-hockey team while I was a student (07-12). From what I've been told this was true prior to me attending as well and a Google search shows that the 2001 championship uniforms didn't display the Sioux logo or name.

 

Speaking of Google, it does appear the word Sioux appeared on the basketball jerseys through 2011. Logos don't often make it onto basketball jerseys so I'll concede that point in terms of their jerseys. 

page_1_thumb_large.jpg

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6 hours ago, darell1976 said:

329479.jpg

2009

 

http://www.undsports.com/PhotoAlbum.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=13500&PALBID=21914

2008 vs Texas A&M-Kingsville

Logo came off in 2010 (which was the original deadline for the Indian tribes to give their permission per the settlement)

 

We should have kept the interlocking on the helmets and replaced the 2 inch Sioux patch with the same size FH patch.  That would have helped with the transition for some of us.   

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11 minutes ago, Old Time Hockey said:

We should have kept the interlocking on the helmets and replaced the 2 inch Sioux patch with the same size FH patch.  That would have helped with the transition for some of us.   

I don't like the numbers on one side of the helmet. I would rather see a logo on both sides.

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9 hours ago, hky said:

There's a difference between eventually transitioning to a logo and having it shoved down your throat.  Is it really that important to have it at center court?  Really?  A quick google image search turns up many courts with the school name or initial(s) rather than their nickname/logo:  Duke, Denver, Minnesota, Michigan, SDSU...

You're missing the point. The overall relationship, or the lack thereof, between the University of North Dakota and the Ralph Engelstad Foundation is the issue. The logo just happens to be one of the stages by which it's set.  The University of North Dakota represents the ideals of more than just those  directly associated with the Betty Engelstad Sioux Center and Ralph Englestad Arena. If folks feel the REA  makes or breaks the University of North Dakota, then I would really question those folks'  values and principles. 

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7 hours ago, darell1976 said:

329479.jpg

2009

 

http://www.undsports.com/PhotoAlbum.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=13500&PALBID=21914

2008 vs Texas A&M-Kingsville

Logo came off in 2010 (which was the original deadline for the Indian tribes to give their permission per the settlement)

 

Oh yes.. That tiny, indistinguishable logo at the center certainly destroys my point about the team using main logo when the large ND is plastered everywhere else including the center field.

I should have said 2010 beforehand for the men's team. The women's team switch to the jersey you posted in 2008. The football team didn't wear a large/traditional logo on their jersey in a very long time. OCKAMGFLWYJDDXV.20071113174432.jpg.d7e24d84ad8002203ea8d525ecb2a2c5.jpgScreenshot_2018-05-16-07-21-36.thumb.png.9d7a9491c465aedcf3adfcc75cf626b7.pngpage_1_thumb_large.jpg.9a1e0165f862eb17edc549750770d4f8.jpgBQEMIAHSWOLVRST.20081229154131.jpg.545045ffba7f06b6219aa90bab1969c0.jpg

page_1.jpg

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7 minutes ago, UND-FB-FAN said:

You're missing the point. The overall relationship, or the lack thereof, between the University of North Dakota and the Ralph Engelstad Foundation is the issue. The logo just happens to be one of the stages by which it's set.  The University of North Dakota represents the ideals of more than just those  directly associated with the Betty Engelstad Sioux Center and Ralph Englestad Arena. If folks feel the REA  makes or breaks the University of North Dakota, then I would really question those folks'  values and principles. 

Best argument and position I've read so far.

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Once again there seems to be this thought process by many here that being a supporter and fan of UND, especially in regards to athletics, has to include the unconditional acceptance of the new nickname and logo. Some also try to tie the increase in "record" dollars given to the university to the new nickname and logo. Neither of these things have to be or are mutually inclusive.  With all that said put the logo where ever it is best suited.

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1 hour ago, Old Time Hockey said:

We should have kept the interlocking on the helmets and replaced the 2 inch Sioux patch with the same size FH patch.  That would have helped with the transition for some of us.   

Great. Now you go and point out yet another terrible decision that was made in this whole process.???

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8 hours ago, Rebel_Sioux said:

 But the logo did not appear on the jersey of any non-hockey team while I was a student (07-12).

This was your post, and I corrected it. 

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How many football teams ever have a large logo on the jerseys ?

A small logo under the neckline is common, shoulder logos are common.

Football has used the indian head logo sparingly in the 80s "similar" to the bhawks  logo used by hockey.

Hockey is far and away the only sport to brand with a logo so prominently on a uniform.... hence why the greater connection with fan bases imho.

 

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The interlocking ND IMO needs to still have a prominent role at UND. I know the Norte Dame argument but that's one school vs. the countless schools that have a hawks logo.

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