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Kennedy vs. Engelstad Foundation: GF herald feature

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15 minutes ago, Csonked Out said:

I was thinking the same thing, you just worded it better. I question the rush to go public in all this but I also want to compare our lease to NDSU's lease of the Fargo dome. Are they comparable in revenue splits or is there a big gap between the 2? Remember, back in 2002 there was a lawsuit between NDSU and the City of Fargo so it isn't uncommon in these types of situations.

The Fargodome was paid for by city sales tax and NDSU just rents the facility, the agreement would be similar to what UND has with the Alerus Center. Doubtful there is a revenue split on tickets, though there might be something in terms of suites or concessions but it will still not be comparable to UND/REA

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15 minutes ago, Frozen4sioux said:

NDSU, SDSU, USD and Montana?... Shoot for the moon all-star. 

But theres no reason that UND can't achieve such mediocre heights as you aspire to.

WITH the current REA situation.

I guarantee you, without the revenue the UND athletics DOES receive from REA, there would be a much more dire budgetary crisis in the athletic department.  D1.... that would be a pipe dream, even at the D1jv level.

THE REA situation does not cost UND athletics money. If you cant understand that I dont know how you get through the day. 

False. There are both primary and secondary repercussions of the REA agreement that do in fact cost the other programs. You really are trying to spin your agenda. Yes, the REA does dramatically impact the UND hockey program, but the other programs are minimally affected (certainly not impacted at the level you suggest). 

Also, you're saying UND *can* reach "mediocre heights" with the current arrangement? Well, that certainly doesn't mean they will. Actually, the odds are far from their favor given the current situation. It is less than ideal for the non-hockey student-athletes of the University of North Dakota.

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2 minutes ago, jdub27 said:

The Fargodome was paid for by city sales tax and NDSU just rents the facility, the agreement would be similar to what UND has with the Alerus Center. Doubtful there is a revenue split on tickets, though there might be something in terms of suites or concessions but it will still not be comparable to UND/REA

It's night and day difference. NDSU capitalizes big-time on that agreement relative to UND-REA.

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9 minutes ago, SiouxVolley said:

Have long posited the UND will have a donated fb stadium on the former Ray Richards course.  This prediction has been brutalized here, but if it is comes to pass, Kennedy would absolutely need to renegotiate the football part of the payments to the REA.  Any President would do that.  McGarry would look so parochial, as if she doesn’t have UND’s best interest at heart.

So now you are saying someone else will look bad if one of your many conjectures comes to fruition!  Let us know how that comes out.

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37 minutes ago, jdub27 said:

Kennedy is a successful businessman and politician, both of which require negotiating skills and the latter, significant fundraising. That makes me question some of the accusations thrown at him, however also leads me to believe the REA didn't take kindly to the request to renegotiate the contract between the two. 

Yeah, because accusations against politicians are never true because they are the salt of the earth.  The skill I think of when I think of politicians is an inability to be honest and resort to phrases such as I don’t recall that conversation.  Guess you have a better view of politicians than I do.

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28 minutes ago, UND-FB-FAN said:

False. There are both primary and secondary repercussions of the REA agreement that do in fact cost the other programs. You really are trying to spin your agenda. Yes, the REA does dramatically impact the UND hockey program, but the other programs are minimally affected (certainly not impacted at the level you suggest). 

Also, you're saying UND *can* reach "mediocre heights" with the current arrangement? Well, that certainly doesn't mean they will. Actually, the odds are far from their favor given the current situation. It is less than ideal for the non-hockey student-athletes of the University of North Dakota.

Name One.  Real and rational, not made up, not founded in jealousy, adverse real effects from having a successful hockey program. 

Losing your girlfriend to a hockey player doesnt count either.

Good at spouting your heretic, not so much living in reality.

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(men's hockey, football, men's and women's basketball and volleyball). RE Arena Inc. retains 52 percent of such ticket revenue and remits 48 percent to UND.

RE Arena Inc. retains 64 percent of such sponsorship revenue, net of direct costs and remits 36 percent to the UND net of direct costs."

The NDUS report states that in fiscal year 2017, gross tickets sales were $4.6 million—meaning RE Arena Inc. took a $2.4 million share and UND was awarded $2.2 million.

In terms of advertising (also labeled sponsorship in the document), RE Arena Inc. made $769,000 and paid out $432,000 to UND

 

 

Where's the rest of the money. Where does food and beer sales go? 

I'm going to take a shot at the $. This will take some time and estimates and fine tune as go along. Any help much appreciated.

If FB had over 2,000 students ave and the Hawks Nest had over 10,000 avg attendance, then 8,000 seats sold. Times $25 seat = $200,000 x 5 games = 1M$, also remember $400,000 or whatever from FBS Utah game, which I'm not adding in.

MBB about 1500 seats

WBB??      

VB ??

If Hockey had over 3,000 students and The Ralph had over 11,000 avg attendance, then 8,000 seats sold. Times $45 seat $360,000 x 18 games not counting playoffs = 6.5M$. No counting what students pay for their tickets.

This seems more like 8M$ in ticket sales where the reports from Dub's post and SBoHE show 4.6M$

Please tell me I'm doing something wrong here?

Anyone know the # of seats in the student section at The Ralph?

CC money is not being used in these numbers, face value ticket price is.

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51 minutes ago, jdub27 said:

The Fargodome was paid for by city sales tax and NDSU just rents the facility, the agreement would be similar to what UND has with the Alerus Center. Doubtful there is a revenue split on tickets, though there might be something in terms of suites or concessions but it will still not be comparable to UND/REA

What the heck, I'll answer this one to the best of my abilities. The terms of the deal have been publicized numerous times in the past, so I think I'll get it pretty close, though I might be wrong in a couple details.

 

NDSU owns the land the Fargodome sits on. NDSU agreed to a 99-year lease of the land to the city of Fargo for $1(per year?) in exchange for limited free rent. NDSU gets a certain number of days per year free of charge, then can choose to rent extra days at a preferential rate. I believe the number of free days is something like 15/year, though I could be off by a little. I think it's two days per regular season home game plus one day for spring graduation.

As to the gate, NDSU gets 100% of the ticket revenue for everything except the suites(18 suites x 16 ticket each or 288 tickets total). The Fargodome keeps all of the suite revenue. Team Makers gets 100% of the seating fees. I believe NDSU gets a cut of the concessions, but the FD keeps the majority of that(something like an 80/20 split?). The FD gets most or all of the parking revenue from the regular lots. Team Makers rents the tailgating lots from the FD and pays for extra security, but gets 100% of the tailgating parking pass money.

As far as advertising goes, I think the FD keeps all money specific to the FD, while NDSU keeps all money specific to NDSU football. For example, if Cloverdale Meats pays to put their logo on the FD scoreboard, that money goes to the FD. But if they pay to put their logo on the Bison FB banner that runs the length of the sideline behind the bench, then I believe that goes to NDSU. But don't hold me to this paragraph; I could easily be wrong.

While some of the particulars may have changed a bit over the years(number of free dates, rates for additional days, cut of concessions, etc.), I believe the fundamental deal has been the same from the beginning.

 

I'm not taking a side in the Kennedy/McGrady fight, just clearing up the NDSU/FD stuff. Carry on.

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4 minutes ago, Hammersmith said:

What the heck, I'll answer this one to the best of my abilities. The terms of the deal have been publicized numerous times in the past, so I think I'll get it pretty close, though I might be wrong in a couple details.

 

NDSU owns the land the Fargodome sits on. NDSU agreed to a 99-year lease of the land to the city of Fargo for $1(per year?) in exchange for limited free rent. NDSU gets a certain number of days per year free of charge, then can choose to rent extra days at a preferential rate. I believe the number of free days is something like 15/year, though I could be off by a little. I think it's two days per regular season home game plus one day for spring graduation.

As to the gate, NDSU gets 100% of the ticket revenue for everything except the suites(18 suites x 16 ticket each or 288 tickets total). The Fargodome keeps all of the suite revenue. Team Makers gets 100% of the seating fees. I believe NDSU gets a cut of the concessions, but the FD keeps the majority of that(something like an 80/20 split?). The FD gets most or all of the parking revenue from the regular lots. Team Makers rents the tailgating lots from the FD and pays for extra security, but gets 100% of the tailgating parking pass money.

As far as advertising goes, I think the FD keeps all money specific to the FD, while NDSU keeps all money specific to NDSU football. For example, if Cloverdale Meats pays to put their logo on the FD scoreboard, that money goes to the FD. But if they pay to put their logo on the Bison FB banner that runs the length of the sideline behind the bench, then I believe that goes to NDSU. But don't hold me to this paragraph; I could easily be wrong.

While some of the particulars may have changed a bit over the years(number of free dates, rates for additional days, cut of concessions, etc.), I believe the fundamental deal has been the same from the beginning.

 

I'm not taking a side in the Kennedy/McGrady fight, just clearing up the NDSU/FD stuff. Carry on.

Thank you for that report. This thread is going to become educational to most of us.

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17 minutes ago, Siouxperman8 said:

You accuse UND-FB-FAN of stoking fan base division and then follow up by insulting the football and basketball programs and say deal with it.  

Your recent posts position you as the poster child for driving fan base division. 

Thats not an insult. How possibly could it be?... That is just the true and rightful levels of success that could possibly be achieved. 

Will football ever compete in top of sport division, no. 

Will basketball ever in our wildest dreams compete past the first weekend of the tourney, no.

Its not insultung, its just the truth.

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57 minutes ago, Frozen4sioux said:

Thats not an insult. How possibly could it be?... That is just the true and rightful levels of success that could possibly be achieved. 

Will football ever compete in top of sport division, no. 

Will basketball ever in our wildest dreams compete past the first weekend of the tourney, no.

Its not insultung, its just the truth.

Top of sport division is your metric? That doesn't work when the sport you are using as your comparison is niche and has relatively minimal following compared to the other top collegiate sports. You do realize the "none top of sport" football program south of Grand Forks draws more to a single game than any UND hockey game has, right? Or that football program that you called "mediocre" earlier in Montana draws over 20,000 a game to watch "none top of sport" football. Heck, even the tiny town of Brookings draws more to SDSU football games then UND hockey does. Bottomline is the discrepancy in national popularity between football and hockey is so great that your single "top of sport" metric is meaningless; other than to make those heavily biased towards hockey (like yourself) satisfied with UND's direction. 

As for your earlier post about how this entire UND-REA agreement is detrimental to the other sports: well, the REA gets the majority of the revenue. There is no way to ensure that revenue goes to non-hockey UND sports that need the funding. Much of it goes towards the REA which benefits hockey (and very little benefits basketball and volleyball via the Betty per minimal upgrades). Much of the revenue that the Englestad Foundation does donate back to UND goes to UND hockey too via coaches salary, hockey scholarships, travel costs, etc. The current arrangement obviously is heavily biased towards UND hockey. The other sports would be better serviced if UND could directly obtain more of the ticket sales revenue than they currently do; hence, here we are back to the UND/REA agreement.  

The issue of having the Engelstads control much of the revenue of UND sports rather than UND being able to allocate all of their revenue is the principal issue. This is the University of North Dakota we're talking about. I certainly did not graduate from Engelstad University. No matter how generous we want to perceive the $100M gift, the Englestad family still did NOT purchase all of UND athletics. The revenue sharing could at least be 50/50. The Engelstads are heavily biased towards a niche sport and a outdated nickname and therein lies the problem. 

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9 minutes ago, SiouxVolley said:

There are numerous examples for hockey taking precedence over other programs, and having the REA getting money from basketball and football and having options to plow it back into hockey facilities.

Cases in point:  the hockey team getting a shiny state of the art new locker room when their old one was 15 years old with fb helping pay it, while the football team has to deal with one almost a century old.  The REA had total control over that fiasco.

Hockey coaches are paid at the top of the line, while fb and mbb, especially assistants, aren’t paid squat, even at their levels.  The REA can insist on paying hockey coaches top rate, but damn if they will insist on paying other coaches.  The other coaches are held to a UND pride standpoint as far as their salaries, but not hockey.  Didn’t see the REA squawking about a men’s B.B. assistant that took a USD job today that pays reportedly 50% more.  After all, more than half of B-ball and f-ball money is run through the REA for what hockey minds want to do with it.

Fully support hockey, but don’t trust the REA Trust’s vision for the benefit of all UND athletics.  Hockey is like the slum lord overseer.

 LOL... wow what color is your sky?

A fiasco... wow, delusional.

So locker room being paid for with private money is evil slum lording but...

Mascot paid for with private money is  "how dare you have an opinion on how private money is spent"?

Hypocritical at best but blatantly ignorant. Either way the jealousy is just sad ....and its ugly.

Pay scales are dictated by the markets of the levels of play of teams. No vast conspiracy to keep the people from NOT being paid.... 

Raise some money, go get Phil Jackson or some other alum to donate a huge pile of money and pay up, CREATE a world of advantage .... dont cry because you dont "GET."  

Pretty sure it was just reported that REA was about to "plow" $800k into a new roof for the Betty.  Did basketball generate $800k last year? Let alone a  profit.... I wonder where those funds came from.... hmmmmmm. 

 

 

p.s. It wasn't football.

 

 

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So your complaining that the the organization.... that is only in existence because of hockey.

Is too heavily focused on using the funds generated by hockey... on supporting hockey.

How, pray tell, do you believe this magic money would be coelessing out of the either and being made available to these "real" programs if hockey and REA were not here. 

And to further destroy your fantasy.... you must believe that somehow GF would be packing a 20000 seat stadium for football without REA????....

Sorry I dont care how many people go to a football game in Montana or how popular football is nationally

Using the same flawed logic UND should give all the money to the soccer program cause they sell the shitbout of that in Europe.

... UND is never going to magically get that attendence... and NOBODY is going to build such a massive waste of a stadium in GF. Ever.

The other sports would be better serviced if UND could directly obtain more of the ticket sales revenue than they currently do

A larger percentage of a fractioanlly smaller number is not going to be helping UND football or basketball in anyway.  Do you not see that basic fact?

You keep thinking this money is just magically there.

The money is there because of REA.

REA is there because of hockey.

Without either there is nothing to even argue about, OMG this is not that hard to understand

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16 minutes ago, Frozen4sioux said:

 LOL... wow what color is your sky?

A fiasco... wow, delusional.

So locker room being paid for with private money is evil slum lording but...

Mascot paid for with private money is  "how dare you have an opinion on how private money is spent"?

Hypocritical at best but blatantly ignorant. Either way the jealousy is just sad ....and its ugly.

Pay scales are dictated by the markets of the levels of play of teams. No vast conspiracy to keep the people from NOT being paid.... 

Raise some money, go get Phil Jackson or some other alum to donate a huge pile of money and pay up, CREATE a world of advantage .... dont cry because you dont "GET."  

Pretty sure it was just reported that REA was about to "plow" $800k into a new roof for the Betty.  Did basketball generate $800k last year? Let alone a  profit.... I wonder where those funds came from.... hmmmmmm. 

 

 

p.s. It wasn't football.

 

 

While the millions of extra revenue that the REA holds - that could benefit UND football or other non-hockey sports - will again find its way toward the hockey program and not football and basketball coaching salaries/HPC phase II. The REA inc. pockets far more than it should for hockey and not UND athletics as a whole.

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1 minute ago, UND-FB-FAN said:

While the millions of extra revenue that the REA holds - that could benefit UND football or other non-hockey sports - will again find its way toward the hockey program and not football and basketball coaching salaries/HPC phase II. The REA inc. pockets far more than it should for hockey and not UND athletics as a whole.

Again you think this magic money generated not from other programs should br paid out to other programs???.

Thats welfare. UND football cant stand on its own without welfare? Where does the money come from when nobody pays into the kitty?

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12 minutes ago, Frozen4sioux said:

 LOL... wow what color is your sky?

A fiasco... wow, delusional.

So locker room being paid for with private money is evil slum lording but...

Mascot paid for with private money is  "how dare you have an opinion on how private money is spent"?

Hypocritical at best but blatantly ignorant. Either way the jealousy is just sad ....and its ugly.

Pay scales are dictated by the markets of the levels of play of teams. No vast conspiracy to keep the people from NOT being paid.... 

Raise some money, go get Phil Jackson or some other alum to donate a huge pile of money and pay up, CREATE a world of advantage .... dont cry because you dont "GET."  

Pretty sure it was just reported that REA was about to "plow" $800k into a new roof for the Betty.  Did basketball generate $800k last year? Let alone a  profit.... I wonder where those funds came from.... hmmmmmm. 

 

 

p.s. It wasn't football.

 

 

The REA agreed to house basketball and Vball for 52% of their and fb’s take.  If the REA hadn’t been cost cutting on construction, the roof might have lasted longer.  

Maybe it was private money to remake to locker room, but if UND was in charge that gift would probably be rejected or sent to more noble cause.  The REA Trust can accept charitable gifts.  Rejections of gifts happens by universities when people want to give to some pet project that aren’t inline with the Unversities priorities.  Come 2030, that will play out.

The hockey teams own chef is paid for by REA funds.  Some women’s team now gets that now too, rather than women’s hockey, but basketball teams don’t get their own chef to make meals.  They.have cafeteria like all the other dorm students and a snack bar after practice.

Not against the REA being a palace for hockey, as it is needed for recruiting, just don’t like other sports being treated like peons.

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16 minutes ago, Frozen4sioux said:

Again you think this magic money generated not from other programs should br paid out to other programs???.

Thats welfare. UND football cant stand on its own without welfare? Where does the money come from when nobody pays into the kitty?

The Engelstads essentially purchased UND athletics and you fail to realize it (or at least youre content with it). Football and basketball could finance far more on their own if they were initially funded in such a way to have competitive standards relative to their peers (principally coaching salaries and facilities - afterthoughts for the hockey program due to protection from the REA inc.). Also, it's not welfare when the hockey student-athletes play for the University of North Dakota, not the Fighting Sioux Engelstad Fund. UND, not the REA foundation, should control financing decisions, hands down. 

 

 

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11 minutes ago, Frozen4sioux said:

Again you think this magic money generated not from other programs should br paid out to other programs???.

Thats welfare. UND football cant stand on its own without welfare? Where does the money come from when nobody pays into the kitty?

Individual athletic programs are not profit centers.  The revenues and profits should essentially be considered marketing spend to be distributed at the discretion of the University.  Athletics are the front doorstep to the University, Chapman had that right.  

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2 minutes ago, UND-FB-FAN said:

 The Engelstads essentially purchased UND athletics and you fail to realize it (or at least your content with it).  WILD CONSPIRACY THEORIES ARE BEST SERVED ON R/CONSPIRACY AND YOU MAY FIND SOME SUPPORT FOR THAT ASSININE DRIBBLE THERE. 

Football and basketball could finance far more on their own if they were initially funded in such a way to have competitive standards relative to their peers (principally coaching salaries and facilities - afterthoughts for the hockey program protected by the REA inc.). DID YOU EAT PAINT CHIPS AS A CHILD? THERE IS NO MONEY FROM FB OR BB TO SUPPORT THE LEVELS OF PAY YOU THINK SHOULD BE EQAL?? WHERE IS THIS MAGIC MONEY GOING TO COME FROM?

Also, it's not welfare when the hockey student-athletes play for the University of North Dakota, IT IS WHEN THEY DO NOT GENERATE MONEY BUT ARE THEN DISTRIBUTED MONEY SOMEONE ELSE GENERATED. not the Fighting Sioux Engelstad Fund. UND, not the REA foundation, should control financing decisions, hands down.

IF TOMORROW COLLEGE HOCKEY WAS NOT A THING AND HOCKEY WAS NOT A SPORT AT THE NCAA LEVEL. FB AND BB WOULD NOT HAVE MORE MONEY TO MAKE ANY DIFFERENT FINANCIAL DECISIONS WITH.

UND IS NOT GOING TO SCUTTLE THE HOCKEY PROGRAM TO TRY AND WIN THAT COVETED JV FOOTBALL TITLE. SORRY.

PLEASE TELL ME YOU DIDN'T GET YOUR FINANCIAL EDUCATION AT UND, PLEASE GOD, PLEASE.

 

 

 

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23 minutes ago, SiouxVolley said:

The REA agreed to house basketball and Vball for 52% of their and fb’s take.  If the REA hadn’t been cost cutting on construction, the roof might have lasted longer.

AND YOU KNOW AND CAN ACCUSE THE REA OF 'COST CUTTING' ON THE ROOF? OF THEIR OWN BUILDING, TO SPITE BASKETBALL?

Maybe it was private money to remake to locker room, but if UND was in charge that gift would probably be rejected or sent to more noble cause.  The REA Trust can accept charitable gifts.  Rejections of gifts happens by universities when people want to give to some pet project that aren’t inline with the Unversities priorities.  Come 2030, that will play out.

SO YOU THINK UND WILL REFUSE DONATIONS FOR FACILITY IMPROVEMENTS AFTER 2030?  OR ORDER NEW BASKETBALL FLOOR MOPS DUE TO THEIR HIGHER NOBILITY?  DO YOU LISTEN TO YOURSELF?  IN YOUR FANTASY WORLD, DOES THE UNIVERSITY KNOCK DOWN THE REA IN 2030 OR JUST CONVERT IT TO THE CULTURALLY EQUATABLE SAFEHOUSE OF ANTI-ICKINESS DEPARTMENT OFFICES?

The hockey teams own chef is paid for by REA funds.  Some women’s team now gets that now too, rather than women’s hockey, but basketball teams don’t get their own chef to make meals.  They.have cafeteria like all the other dorm students and a snack bar after practice.

Not against the REA being a palace for hockey, as it is needed for recruiting, just don’t like other sports being treated like peons.

OTHER SPORTS ARE TREATED EQUAL TO THE LEVELS OF COMPETITION OF THE ENVIORNMENT THEY EXIST IN. WANT THAT TO IMPROVE, FIND A DONOR TO SUPPORT THE PROGRAM TO A HIGHER LEVEL, DONT PRAY WITH SEETHING JEALOUSY THAT OTHERS SUCCESS CAN BE RETROGRADED TO MEDIOCRE LEVELS SO THE BB TEAMS FEELING ARENT HUWRT.   IF THEY WANT A DAMN OMLET IM SURE THEY CAN FIGURE OUT HOW TO GET ONE, IF NOT I DONT WANT THEM HERE.

 

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