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kiyoat

Hawk's opinions on the Summit League Tourney in SF

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2 minutes ago, FSSD said:

Next to leave....  Fort Worth...   plus I thought that Oakland and Oral Roberts left complaining about Sioux Falls.  Hell, KC left for the WAC...  of course the Southland conference felt apart so Oral Bob came back, but for how long?  Plus, you have MVC and Horizon looking to grow again very soon...  next up Denver, Omaha, KC, Oral Bob or/and FW

UND is the glue that would keep Denver and Omaha in, otherwise they would leave too The XDSU's will rely on UND to get more Big Sky schools.

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2 hours ago, SiouxVolley said:

UND is the glue that would keep Denver and Omaha in, otherwise they would leave too The XDSU's will rely on UND to get more Big Sky schools.

Wasn’t there word that UMKC was moving back to the SL? 

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5 hours ago, kiyoat said:

The goegraphic center of the  conference (with UND added) is basically Sioux City.  Who the Hell wants to go to Sewer City?  Omaha, maybe, but nobody cares about the Summit League in Omaha.  In Sioux Falls it's the main event.  Lots of casual fans show up there that never attend a Jacks or Coyote game the rest of the year.  Even when those two teams aren't playing there are blue and red fans showing up.  I doubt you would see that in Minneapolis or Omaha.  I guess I could be wrong, but I doubt it.

Check this tool out:

http://www.geomidpoint.com/

 

I did the tool and it was just outside Lincoln, so keeping it a stones throw from SL campus isn’t possible with the center close to Omaha the best way to keep the SLT from a Jacks home game is to knock them out. 

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19 minutes ago, darell1976 said:

Wasn’t there word that UMKC was moving back to the SL? 

UMKC did a study which is supposed to tell them what to do:  stay D1, go DII, or drop athletics.  No move has been announced.

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6 hours ago, kiyoat said:

Conference members want a tournament that makes money and draws fans.  The SLT has done that better than any mid-major tournament.  The Summit has tried other locations in the past, and they were total failures.  They aren't moving.  Again, focusing on moving the tournament to a crappy location that doesn't draw fans is the kind of stuff that gets conference commissioners fired.

The fact that there are loads of lower-bowl tickets that are basically already sold before you even join the conference is the real crime, IMO.

Ask a regular season conference champ that just lost a championship game to a 5 seed that was playing at home if they would have rather had a tournament that made money or one that didn't favor one program every year. I think you may get a different answer. 

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11 hours ago, darell1976 said:

I did the tool and it was just outside Lincoln, so keeping it a stones throw from SL campus isn’t possible with the center close to Omaha the best way to keep the SLT from a Jacks home game is to knock them out. 

Try it again.  I think you may not have included all four Dakota Schools.

UND, NDSU, SDSU, USD, Omaha, Denver, ORU, WIU, IPFW

With that the midpoint is just east of Sioux City.  If you add UMKC its about halfway between Sioux City and Omaha.  One nice thing about Omaha is that its right in the center from a transportation standpoint.  There is an I-29 corridor with UND-NDSU-SDSU-USD-Omaha-KC-ORU, and an I-80 corridor with Denver-Omaha-WIU-IPFW.  Its just not a neutral site.  With the low numbers of UNO Basketball fans, I guess you could call it more neutral based on that.  Omaha won't roll out the red carpet quite as much because there are so many other things going on sports-wise.  SF is basketball-crazy that weekend.

With the Big Sky, the midpoint is near Pocatello, ID (Idaho State).  Removing UND pulls the midpoint west to Twin Falls, ID (Halfway to Boise).  Looking at that, it makes perfect sense why they/you chose to move the BB tourney from Reno to Boise.  Larger City neutral site.  Plus it's a college athletics town with Boise State there.  I think its a great plan, and should get more fans there.

Its a fun tool to play with (Geo midpoint calc)

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12 hours ago, SiouxVolley said:

UMKC did a study which is supposed to tell them what to do:  stay D1, go DII, or drop athletics.  No move has been announced.

Yeah, from what I have heard staying in the WAC is not an option due to travel costs.  Going back to the Summit makes the most sense, but they are less than thrilled about that option.  Personally, I think they would help stabilize the conference geographically (I-29 corridor, link between Omaha and Tulsa, travel partners, etc.)  Their athletics aren't that strong, at the moment, but things are cyclical.

We just have to come to terms with the fact that the Summit always has been an unstable place with the membership like a revolving door.  I'm very happy that UND is joining (not sure why you guys couldn't have joined this season), because having the Dakota 4 together creates a stable core to the conference.  Some members will always have one foot out the door regardless of where the Conference Tourney is held.  IUPUI and Ft Wayne have always wanted to switch to the Horizon based mainly on geography and travel cost.  I can't blame them.  WIU isn't going anywhere IMO.  They founded the conference.  Denver has all kinds of wild plans.  Who knows what they will do.  Maybe UND's addition will help with them and Omaha.

The key is to maintain viability with the auto-bid.  If/when Ft Wayne leaves we will have a baseball problem (less than 6 teams).  Northern Colorado would fix that, but I'm not sure if they have motivation to move.  Mankato or St. Cloud would be good fits, but I don't know if they want to move up.

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12 hours ago, nd1sufan said:

Ask a regular season conference champ that just lost a championship game to a 5 seed that was playing at home if they would have rather had a tournament that made money or one that didn't favor one program every year. I think you may get a different answer. 

OH, I agree that it is frustrating at times with that crowd.  On the plus side, over the last three years USD fans have finally started infiltrating the Jacks stranglehold on the arena.  And since we hate the Jacks, that at least gives a little balance.  I guess my thought is to keep it in SF, but there is no reason to further alienate fan bases with exclusionary ticketing practices.

It's kind of like Texas ruining every conference they are in by not knowing when to quit leveraging every advantage they have, and having to dominate and control everything.  I think the SLT has grown into an impressive tournament, but the conference needs to also add some equitable practices to encourage inclusion rather than the other way around.

Make it easier for fans to travel there, get good tickets, and participate.  Create travel packages with air/bus fare, lodging and meals for fans of the schools that are farther away,  (also so they can travel and stay together.  Maybe with the teams.  Increase availability of tickets for those fans, and advertise it more in Denver, Tulsa, Ft Wayne, etc.  Just some ideas.

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OH, and BTW.  Thanks for your opinions.  I'm always curious what other fans perspectives are.  I just know it is often irritating when Jacks fans (which seem to be on every message board around but this one) come on to the USD message board and arrogantly lecture us on what the correct worldview is, and to remind us that they are superior in every way.  Not all of them do that, but plenty enough.

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2 hours ago, kiyoat said:

Try it again.  I think you may not have included all four Dakota Schools.

UND, NDSU, SDSU, USD, Omaha, Denver, ORU, WIU, IPFW

With that the midpoint is just east of Sioux City.  If you add UMKC its about halfway between Sioux City and Omaha.  One nice thing about Omaha is that its right in the center from a transportation standpoint.  There is an I-29 corridor with UND-NDSU-SDSU-USD-Omaha-KC-ORU, and an I-80 corridor with Denver-Omaha-WIU-IPFW.  Its just not a neutral site.  With the low numbers of UNO Basketball fans, I guess you could call it more neutral based on that.  Omaha won't roll out the red carpet quite as much because there are so many other things going on sports-wise.  SF is basketball-crazy that weekend.

With the Big Sky, the midpoint is near Pocatello, ID (Idaho State).  Removing UND pulls the midpoint west to Twin Falls, ID (Halfway to Boise).  Looking at that, it makes perfect sense why they/you chose to move the BB tourney from Reno to Boise.  Larger City neutral site.  Plus it's a college athletics town with Boise State there.  I think its a great plan, and should get more fans there.

Its a fun tool to play with (Geo midpoint calc)

I only did it for the most northern (UND), Southern (ORU), Western (DU) and Eastern (IPFW) and it centered it close to Lincoln.

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On 12/13/2017 at 8:09 PM, Sampson said:

The Conference Tournament should be hosted by whomever wins the regular season conference.  Period.  End of story.  It should be like that for every conference.  Period.  End of story.

Unless your goal is to generate revenue.  Get with the times man.  If und was the number 1 Seed you’d get 3500 per session vs 12000.  Ouch, terrible idea.

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5 minutes ago, Herd said:

Unless your goal is to generate revenue.  Get with the times man.  If und was the number 1 Seed you’d get 3500 per session vs 12000.  Ouch, terrible idea.

Sampson is one of yours.

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7 minutes ago, UNDBIZ said:

Sampson is one of yours.

I don’t care who it is (3500 or 5000), that’s pretty ignorant.  That a revenue generator, so generate some revenue.

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On 12/15/2017 at 1:16 PM, Herd said:

Unless your goal is to generate revenue.  Get with the times man.  If und was the number 1 Seed you’d get 3500 per session vs 12000.  Ouch, terrible idea.

If only we had 1 or 2 other venues that could host basketball games in order to support larger crowds...

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On December 15, 2017 at 1:31 PM, Herd said:

I don’t care who it is (3500 or 5000), that’s pretty ignorant.  That a revenue generator, so generate some revenue.

So if UND or NDSU is the number one seed what do you think is a bigger revenue generator, losing in the tournament to a lower seeded team playing on their home court and getting a tiny bit  of revenue from the tournament or getting to the BIG Dance? 

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I would expect a SL Tournament could be played at either the Ralph or Alerus Center and seat 8,000+ at either.  Having the tourney in SF every year is poor planning.  Especially if current ticket holders get preferential  treatment on next years seats.

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39 minutes ago, UND92 said:

I would expect a SL Tournament could be played at either the Ralph or Alerus Center and seat 8,000+ at either.  Having the tourney in SF every year is poor planning.  Especially if current ticket holders get preferential  treatment on next years seats.

Could seat 8,000, sure. But would anyone go? Much less likely. 

Doubt you'd get many UND or NDSU fans. SDSU/USD might not want to drive that far either. 

Sioux Falls does a great job. Two "basketball" schools close by. Leave it there. 

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2 minutes ago, JohnboyND7 said:

Could seat 8,000, sure. But would anyone go? Much less likely. 

Doubt you'd get many UND or NDSU fans. SDSU/USD might not want to drive that far either. 

Sioux Falls does a great job. Two "basketball" schools close by. Leave it there. 

South Dakota State and ??

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20 minutes ago, JohnboyND7 said:

Could seat 8,000, sure. But would anyone go? Much less likely. 

Doubt you'd get many UND or NDSU fans. SDSU/USD might not want to drive that far either. 

Sioux Falls does a great job. Two "basketball" schools close by. Leave it there. 

So do you agree with the SL policy of letting those who currently have tickets to be able to keep the same tickets each year?  Shouldn't each team be allotted like 1,000 tickets to sell to their fan base and return them to General Sales if not sold.  I don't think the same teams/fans should get the premium seats every year.  Whoever wins the conference should get premium seats first. 

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25 minutes ago, UNDBIZ said:

South Dakota State and ??

USD maybe? Could be wrong. 

4 minutes ago, UND92 said:

So do you agree with the SL policy of letting those who currently have tickets to be able to keep the same tickets each year?  Shouldn't each team be allotted like 1,000 tickets to sell to their fan base and return them to General Sales if not sold.  I don't think the same teams/fans should get the premium seats every year.  Whoever wins the conference should get premium seats first. 

 I'd be fine with your idea. SDSU and USD would still take over the building, but wouldn't get all the best seats. 

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1 hour ago, JohnboyND7 said:

Could seat 8,000, sure. But would anyone go? Much less likely. 

Doubt you'd get many UND or NDSU fans. SDSU/USD might not want to drive that far either. 

Sioux Falls does a great job. Two "basketball" schools close by. Leave it there. 

Have you ever seen UND host a basketball tournament? They could pack the REA or Alerus. The women hosted a National Title game in 1997 and the Hyslop was deafening (I was there). I think Bison fans would drive the whole ONE hour to a tournament if they can drive down to Texas for a Title game. I think it’s how the tickets are handed out that people have a problem with instead of the venue. 

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19 minutes ago, nodak651 said:

Is anyone for the NCHC tourney being in the twin cities every year but against the basketball tourney in Sioux Falls?

Not me. I think those are perfect locations for those tournaments.

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