Greetings from Salt Lake

[UNDColorado]

6 minutes ago, UND Dood said:

I have to chime in on this one. Grew up and lived in Langdon, ND until I was 22. Have lived in Greeley since 1995. BOTH are great places. Greeley has better weather. Been to many great UND-UNC football games. No need to bash either place! GO HAWKS!

I get what you are saying but you are missing the background here. The username Bigskybears has been coming on here for a few years now ripping on North Dakota and also telling people like me to go home. That person has it coming and nobody here was ripping Greeley without being provoked repeatedly. 

 

[cberkas]

"Greeley sucks, Greeley sucks, Greeley sucks" - Randy Marsh

[UND Dood]

I get you, UNDColorado. Did not know the history. GO HAWKS!!!!!

[geaux_sioux]

Utah fall camp depth chart.

https://twitter.com/AFronceRivals/status/889514197339455488

 

[UofUUtes]

On 7/20/2017 at 2:58 PM, homer said:

WR that was just kicked out of Oregon??

http://www.espn.com/blog/college-football-rumors/post/_/id/8910/rumor-central-teams-interested-in-former-oregon-wr-darren-carrington

Now that the news is official, yes Darren Carrington is joining the Utah WR corp. Carrington has had off the field issues in the past and this will be his last chance. He was a 2nd Team All-Pac12 receiver last year for Oregon. He will immediately become the best receiver on the team and will give Utah a playmaker and deep threat. Carrington had 4 receptions for 116 and 3 TD's in Oregon's spring game. 

http://www.goducks.com/news/2017/4/29/football-offensive-stars-shine-in-spring-game.aspx

He had 43 receptions for 606 yards and 5 TD's as a junior for Oregon

 

[UNDvince97-01]

26 minutes ago, UofUUtes said:

Now that the news is official, yes Darren Carrington is joining the Utah WR corp. Carrington has had off the field issues in the past and this will be his last chance. He was a 2nd Team All-Pac12 receiver last year for Oregon. He will immediately become the best receiver on the team and will give Utah a playmaker and deep threat. Carrington had 4 receptions for 116 and 3 TD's in Oregon's spring game. 

http://www.goducks.com/news/2017/4/29/football-offensive-stars-shine-in-spring-game.aspx

He had 43 receptions for 606 yards and 5 TD's as a junior for Oregon

 

 

Great...

[siouxfan512]

ok guys, realistic thoughts. How much does the loss of Harris for UND AND the addition of Carrington for Utah impact this game. We have some depth at corner, but anyone we thing will be able to keep this guy in check, or at least limit his production?

It'll be the first game, so I'm hoping they won't be clicking on all cylinders yet. I also expect UND to dial up pressure up front and get to the QB; can't let him have time to find his targets. Safety becomes extremely important now, because if I remember right it was blown safety coverage one 1, if not 2, TDs last year at bowling green that cost us the game.

I'd like to think we will keep the run game in check, but the missing on a deep pass always makes me nervous. Can we just move the game from Aug 31 to July 31?

 

[geaux_sioux]

Just now, siouxfan512 said:

ok guys, realistic thoughts. How much does the loss of Harris for UND AND the addition of Carrington for Utah impact this game. We have some depth at corner, but anyone we thing will be able to keep this guy in check, or at least limit his production?

It'll be the first game, so I'm hoping they won't be clicking on all cylinders yet. I also expect UND to dial up pressure up front and get to the QB; can't let him have time to find his targets. Safety becomes extremely important now, because if I remember right it was blown safety coverage one 1, if not 2, TDs last year at bowling green that cost us the game.

I'd like to think we will keep the run game in check, but the missing on a deep pass always makes me nervous. Can we just move the game from Aug 31 to July 31?

 

Same play twice last year

[siouxfan512]

1 minute ago, geaux_sioux said:

Same play twice last year

Crazy to think those two plays are what kept the game close. Other than that UND played a pretty nice game, especially on D. Wish O has been clicking like they were later in the year. That final play is frustrating.

[homer]

31 minutes ago, siouxfan512 said:

ok guys, realistic thoughts. How much does the loss of Harris for UND AND the addition of Carrington for Utah impact this game. We have some depth at corner, but anyone we thing will be able to keep this guy in check, or at least limit his production?

It'll be the first game, so I'm hoping they won't be clicking on all cylinders yet. I also expect UND to dial up pressure up front and get to the QB; can't let him have time to find his targets. Safety becomes extremely important now, because if I remember right it was blown safety coverage one 1, if not 2, TDs last year at bowling green that cost us the game.

I'd like to think we will keep the run game in check, but the missing on a deep pass always makes me nervous. Can we just move the game from Aug 31 to July 31?

 

The loss of Harris impacts this game more than the addition of Carrington.  You don't just replace an All-American corner regardless of who they may cover.  

 

[BarnWinterSportsEngelstad]

Look at all the injuries Richmond had last year and they were in the playoffs. Football has it's share if injuries. Depth is key and we are surely getting there.

[77iceman]

15 hours ago, siouxfan512 said:

ok guys, realistic thoughts. How much does the loss of Harris for UND AND the addition of Carrington for Utah impact this game. We have some depth at corner, but anyone we thing will be able to keep this guy in check, or at least limit his production?

It'll be the first game, so I'm hoping they won't be clicking on all cylinders yet. I also expect UND to dial up pressure up front and get to the QB; can't let him have time to find his targets. Safety becomes extremely important now, because if I remember right it was blown safety coverage one 1, if not 2, TDs last year at bowling green that cost us the game.

I'd like to think we will keep the run game in check, but the missing on a deep pass always makes me nervous. Can we just move the game from Aug 31 to July 31?

 

well . . . it doesn't help.

[siouxfan512]

5 hours ago, 77iceman said:

well . . . it doesn't help.

Thank you for that detailed analysis. 

[77iceman]

2 hours ago, siouxfan512 said:

Thank you for that detailed analysis. 

Anytime.

[UofUUtes]

On 7/26/2017 at 7:45 AM, siouxfan512 said:

ok guys, realistic thoughts. How much does the loss of Harris for UND AND the addition of Carrington for Utah impact this game. We have some depth at corner, but anyone we thing will be able to keep this guy in check, or at least limit his production?

It'll be the first game, so I'm hoping they won't be clicking on all cylinders yet. I also expect UND to dial up pressure up front and get to the QB; can't let him have time to find his targets. Safety becomes extremely important now, because if I remember right it was blown safety coverage one 1, if not 2, TDs last year at bowling green that cost us the game.

I'd like to think we will keep the run game in check, but the missing on a deep pass always makes me nervous. Can we just move the game from Aug 31 to July 31?

 

5

Both moves will have a significant impact on the game (although I'm wondering if there will be some type of suspension due to Carrington's DUI while at Oregon). It has been interesting to witness a transition from the Mountain West Conference to the Pac-12. When people talk about depth, I think they confuse it with the 2-3 depth charts. I look at it more from a position specific way. I'll use the Utah WR's as an example (it would be interesting for UND fans to do the same with your corners). 

As an MWC team, Utah (and other teams similar) would be able to win games because the 2nd and 3rd best receivers were better than the 2nd or 3rd best corners of other teams. A lot of teams can run out a WR that is really, really good. But the difference in the Pac-12 is that there are multiple really, really good WR's on a team. The way I grade positions is something like this:

A+ = NFL All-Pro; A = NFL Starter; A- = NFL backup; B+ = NFL Practice Squad; B = CFL Starter; B- = CFL Backup; C+ = CFL Practice Squad (or equivalent); C = College Starter; C- = College Backup 

The Utah team that beat Alabama in the Sugar Bowl ran out a fringe NFL receiver (I grade him a B+), a guy that got a shot in the NFL (graded B-) and a couple solid WR's that weren't talented enough to play even in the CFL (graded C)

Prior to adding Carrington, I would have graded the potential Utah starters as B+, B, C, C. Adding Carrington gives Utah an A- type guy. So now you can run out A-, B+, B, and C.

So let's say that UND had the following prior to losing Harris (I don't know much beyond him, so this is hypothetical). A-, B-, C, C-. Is this scenario, it would be very reasonable to think that Harris could hold his own and maybe win more reps vs. Utah's top receiver. At the 2nd spot, it would be a battle with Utah winning more reps than lost and so on down the line. The loss of Harris now creates a matchup of a 'B+' WR vs. a 'B-' CB. It is not a significant advantage for Utah, but the winning reps increase slightly. The bigger advantage comes when the 2nd position match-up on becomes a 'B' WR vs. a 'C' CB. That creates a significant advantage for Utah. 

Now you add Carrington and the match-ups start taking on bigger gaps. 1st match-up is 'A-' vs. 'B-'; 2nd is 'B+' vs. 'C'; 3rd 'B' vs. 'C'

I hope this makes sense. We could debate which of the individual moves is bigger and more important. But IMO, the truth lies in how the moves affect the downstream match-ups. 

[gundy1124]

19 minutes ago, UofUUtes said:

Both moves will have a significant impact on the game (although I'm wondering if there will be some type of suspension due to Carrington's DUI while at Oregon). It has been interesting to witness a transition from the Mountain West Conference to the Pac-12. When people talk about depth, I think they confuse it with the 2-3 depth charts. I look at it more from a position specific way. I'll use the Utah WR's as an example (it would be interesting for UND fans to do the same with your corners). 

As an MWC team, Utah (and other teams similar) would be able to win games because the 2nd and 3rd best receivers were better than the 2nd or 3rd best corners of other teams. A lot of teams can run out a WR that is really, really good. But the difference in the Pac-12 is that there are multiple really, really good WR's on a team. The way I grade positions is something like this:

A+ = NFL All-Pro; A = NFL Starter; A- = NFL backup; B+ = NFL Practice Squad; B = CFL Starter; B- = CFL Backup; C+ = CFL Practice Squad (or equivalent); C = College Starter; C- = College Backup 

The Utah team that beat Alabama in the Sugar Bowl ran out a fringe NFL receiver (I grade him a B+), a guy that got a shot in the NFL (graded B-) and a couple solid WR's that weren't talented enough to play even in the CFL (graded C)

Prior to adding Carrington, I would have graded the potential Utah starters as B+, B, C, C. Adding Carrington gives Utah an A- type guy. So now you can run out A-, B+, B, and C.

So let's say that UND had the following prior to losing Harris (I don't know much beyond him, so this is hypothetical). A-, B-, C, C-. Is this scenario, it would be very reasonable to think that Harris could hold his own and maybe win more reps vs. Utah's top receiver. At the 2nd spot, it would be a battle with Utah winning more reps than lost and so on down the line. The loss of Harris now creates a matchup of a 'B+' WR vs. a 'B-' CB. It is not a significant advantage for Utah, but the winning reps increase slightly. The bigger advantage comes when the 2nd position match-up on becomes a 'B' WR vs. a 'C' CB. That creates a significant advantage for Utah. 

Now you add Carrington and the match-ups start taking on bigger gaps. 1st match-up is 'A-' vs. 'B-'; 2nd is 'B+' vs. 'C'; 3rd 'B' vs. 'C'

I hope this makes sense. We could debate which of the individual moves is bigger and more important. But IMO, the truth lies in how the moves affect the downstream match-ups. 

Good read!!

I will let you know how our corners match up after the game.

I loved the Utah game vrs Bama!!  And it wasn't that close of a game (just like the experts said, although for Bama), Utah had Bama on it's heals from the 1st drive.  I'd say your coaches out coached and the players out played even though Bama was probably man for man on paper a better team.  I made the point earlier that UND needs to out coach and out scheme Utah to have a chance, much like Utah did vrs. Bama.  And this won't be easy as the Utah staff is really solid.

Do you know how many 3-4 defenses you typically face in a year?

[UofUUtes]

45 minutes ago, gundy1124 said:

Good read!!

I will let you know how our corners match up after the game.

I loved the Utah game vrs Bama!!  And it wasn't that close of a game (just like the experts said, although for Bama), Utah had Bama on it's heals from the 1st drive.  I'd say your coaches out coached and the players out played even though Bama was probably man for man on paper a better team.  I made the point earlier that UND needs to out coach and out scheme Utah to have a chance, much like Utah did vrs. Bama.  And this won't be easy as the Utah staff is really solid.

Do you know how many 3-4 defenses you typically face in a year?

That is really hard to say. There are 4-5 teams that play a "base" defense of 3-4. But with the influx of spread offenses, teams very rarely play their base defense. Utah's defense is built as a 4-3-4 and the schemes evolve from that. But depending on who Utah plays, the personnel will change drastically. IMO, Utah plays a 4-2-5 defense with a nickleback being a starter rather than a 3rd LB. But that would change when we play a team like Stanford. I would assume that UND won't be playing a true 3-4 on August 31st due to an offense that will resemble EWU, but I could be wrong.

[UNDColorado]

4 minutes ago, UofUUtes said:

That is really hard to say. There are 4-5 teams that play a "base" defense of 3-4. But with the influx of spread offenses, teams very rarely play their base defense. Utah's defense is built as a 4-3-4 and the schemes evolve from that. But depending on who Utah plays, the personnel will change drastically. IMO, Utah plays a 4-2-5 defense with a nickleback being a starter rather than a 3rd LB. But that would change when we play a team like Stanford. I would assume that UND won't be playing a true 3-4 on August 31st due to an offense that will resemble EWU, but I could be wrong.

UND will play a 3-4. Our OLB group resemble safeties in terms of size and speed. 

[UofUUtes]

36 minutes ago, UNDColorado said:

UND will play a 3-4. Our OLB group resemble safeties in terms of size and speed. 

So I'd imagine it would resemble a defense similar to Washington

[geaux_sioux]

31 minutes ago, UofUUtes said:

So I'd imagine it would resemble a defense similar to Washington

That's why I really like the philosophy of hybrid type LBs that can cover. It makes it much easier than having to switch personnel group types all game. 

[gundy1124]

1 hour ago, UofUUtes said:

That is really hard to say. There are 4-5 teams that play a "base" defense of 3-4. But with the influx of spread offenses, teams very rarely play their base defense. Utah's defense is built as a 4-3-4 and the schemes evolve from that. But depending on who Utah plays, the personnel will change drastically. IMO, Utah plays a 4-2-5 defense with a nickleback being a starter rather than a 3rd LB. But that would change when we play a team like Stanford. I would assume that UND won't be playing a true 3-4 on August 31st due to an offense that will resemble EWU, but I could be wrong.

 

1 hour ago, UNDColorado said:

UND will play a 3-4. Our OLB group resemble safeties in terms of size and speed. 

I think we will play our base personnel but schematically will have some different packages.  One of our OLB's is a former safety, Palmborg and another Ray Haas, is a rangy 6'5" 220 lb guy who was described to me as "could be a top player on the team at multiple positions"  At inside backer, if Disterhaupt stays inside, he can run with anyone as he sprints with the top 4-5 on the team in team workouts.  (sprint groups are arranged by speed)

So we will give Utah 3 down, 5 on the line, with 3,4,5, or 6 coming each play, but most times 4,5.  We don't often rush 3 and lay back, that's not our style.

[UofUUtes]

47 minutes ago, geaux_sioux said:

That's why I really like the philosophy of hybrid type LBs that can cover. It makes it much easier than having to switch personnel group types all game. 

I love hybrid guys too. Problem is it is really hard to find guys that can actually succeed consistently in those roles. 

[geaux_sioux]

1 minute ago, UofUUtes said:

I love hybrid guys too. Problem is it is really hard to find guys that can actually succeed consistently in those roles. 

Strange, we get a load of them every year. I swear half of our classes are hybrid 6'1"-6'3" and around 200lbs and can run. 

[UofUUtes]

3 minutes ago, geaux_sioux said:

Strange, we get a load of them every year. I swear half of our classes are hybrid 6'1"-6'3" and around 200lbs and can run. 

Physically there are a bunch, but that doesn't necessarily translate to what I consider a true, successful hybrid. The entire NFL keeps looking for a guy like Arizona's Deone Bucannon, but there are very few guys that can impact both the run game and pass game like he can. Utah has a bunch of guys on the roster that could be a hybrid, but I'm afraid they would lag behind in one aspect of the defense

[geaux_sioux]

2 minutes ago, UofUUtes said:

Physically there are a bunch, but that doesn't necessarily translate to what I consider a true, successful hybrid. The entire NFL keeps looking for a guy like Arizona's Deone Bucannon, but there are very few guys that can impact both the run game and pass game like he can. Utah has a bunch of guys on the roster that could be a hybrid, but I'm afraid they would lag behind in one aspect of the defense

It seems to be a specialty of our coaches. Part of the problem is guys that could do it get put on offense. With our current staff those types of guys 99% of the time get sent to the dark side.  With the previous staff it was the opposite, that't part of why they got !@#$-canned.