UND92

UND to cut women's hockey

1,783 posts in this topic

25 minutes ago, Siouxperfan7 said:

So with 4 players now, with more to come, leaving the program....is this issue over now?  YOu would think if there was any chance of a Title IX lawsuit being successful, the players would certainly stick around.  Good for the players that see the writing on the wall and accept reality.  UND womens hockey may not longer be around, but they still have the opportunity to continue their playing career and education elsewhere.  

It could be argued 4 spots just opened up for future Finnish Olympians.

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15 minutes ago, SJHovey said:

They have a right to rip on UND.  That doesn't mean the decision by UND was wrong, but if there is anyone who has a right to be angry, frustrated and disappointed with the actions of UND regarding the women's hockey program, it's the Lammy twins.

Yes, they have a right to be angry, frustrated or disappointed. However, the problem is they continue to sling vague accusations with no factual backing because they know people won't check into what they are saying. They have refused to address hard numbers or present any viable alternative solutions, instead choosing to throw out half-truths that they know will get uninformed people riled up. Had they stuck to facts instead of alluding to "shady" dealings or playing the sexist card immediately, I don't think people would be as critical of them.

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15 minutes ago, SJHovey said:

They have a right to rip on UND.  That doesn't mean the decision by UND was wrong, but if there is anyone who has a right to be angry, frustrated and disappointed with the actions of UND regarding the women's hockey program, it's the Lammy twins.

Let's just ignore the rest of the family's connections and contributions to UND hockey.  The Lammy twins gave up an opportunity to be stars on championship teams for nothing more than an opportunity to join a horrid program, in their hometown, and try to breathe some life into it.  I'd say they were successful.  Some have suggested failure because of the lack of national championships, but all things being equal they certainly put the women's hockey team on the map.

I don't necessarily disagree with UND's decision.  Something had to be done, and this probably made as much sense fiscally as any others.  But the way the school handled it was sub-optimal, to put it mildly.  Frankly, it probably bothers me more the lack of outrage over the cutting of the other programs (didn't they care?) or the lack of outrage that our school can't get it's fiscal house in order and seemed to be caught by surprise by all of this.

I have seen only hearsay and half-truths about "the way UND handled it" Don't use "the players were on the ice" ruse that was the coaches choice, they admitted they knew it was coming or that they found out via Twitter that was a leak to the media, or blaming the administration for the recruit on campus - were they supposed to monitor and stop all recruiting in advance of the announcement?

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17 minutes ago, SJHovey said:

the lack of outrage that our school can't get it's fiscal house in order and seemed to be caught by surprise by all of this.

Kelley did UND and Kennedy no favors, but the funding from the state is now about what it was in 2009 (not including the med school).  Strangely, expenses have gone up a little bit since then.

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5 hours ago, SJHovey said:

The Lamoureux family's  contributions to North Dakota hockey certainly exceed, by miles, the contributions of anyone on this board.  I think its time to stop ripping them.  Just my two cents.

I'm not sure about anyone else on here but I have more titles under my belt than they do. 

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8 hours ago, 82SiouxGuy said:

 

Actually, the Lamoureux family has 2 National titles at UND.

We're talking the twins since they've been eating their own feet for lunch lately.

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8 hours ago, 82SiouxGuy said:

Actually, the Lamoureux family has 2 National titles at UND.

;)

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I put this out at USCHO also. Call it a "call to action". 

If someone can show me a fiscally responsible balanced budget for the 2017-2019 state legislative biennium for UND Athletics to:

  • add 13 scholarships to women's sports to meet the demands of the Summit League (UND leaving Big Sky in 2018 to save on travel costs* **)
  • balance the M/W opportunities, be Title IX compliant, after cutting baseball* in spring 2016 (when that team was on the field playing a home game)
  • balance M/W grants in aid, be Title IX complaint, while doing the above (adding 13 women's, dropping 5 men's) 
  • cut an additional $1.3 million out of the FY18 annual Athletics baseline budget (after chopping baseball and reallocating grants) and beyond per the funding cuts from the ND Legislature
  • maintain the required sport sponsorship for Summit membership
  • maintain 16 NCAA sports to remain NCAA DI qualified
  • be balanced (no deficit spending, no pushing debt to future budgets)


I'd be happy to see it. (Notice all I put on the table is baseball is gone. Please start at the NCAA FY16 report from UND and reallocate from there.) 

Please send copies to Mark Kennedy and Brian Faison at UND as well.


*per 2015-2017 state biennium budget cuts
**Summit is all bus travel; Big Sky is all air travel;

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52 minutes ago, The Sicatoka said:

I put this out at USCHO also. Call it a "call to action". 

If someone can show me a fiscally responsible balanced budget for the 2017-2019 state legislative biennium for UND Athletics to:

  • add 13 scholarships to women's sports to meet the demands of the Summit League (UND leaving Big Sky in 2018 to save on travel costs* **)
  • balance the M/W opportunities, be Title IX compliant, after cutting baseball* in spring 2016 (when that team was on the field playing a home game)
  • balance M/W grants in aid, be Title IX complaint, while doing the above (adding 13 women's, dropping 5 men's) 
  • cut an additional $1.3 million out of the FY18 annual Athletics baseline budget (after chopping baseball and reallocating grants) and beyond per the funding cuts from the ND Legislature
  • maintain the required sport sponsorship for Summit membership
  • maintain 16 NCAA sports to remain NCAA DI qualified
  • be balanced (no deficit spending, no pushing debt to future budgets)


I'd be happy to see it. (Notice all I put on the table is baseball is gone. Please start at the NCAA FY16 report from UND and reallocate from there.) 

Please send copies to Mark Kennedy and Brian Faison at UND as well.


*per 2015-2017 state biennium budget cuts
**Summit is all bus travel; Big Sky is all air travel;

I've got to believe that the teams will fly to Denver, and IUPUI/Fort Wayne. Perhaps, I'm wrong?  Definitely going to bus a lot more than in the Big Sky which is nearly zero.

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22 minutes ago, the green team said:

I've got to believe that the teams will fly to Denver, and IUPUI/Fort Wayne. Perhaps, I'm wrong?  Definitely going to bus a lot more than in the Big Sky which is nearly zero.

We could quibble over the word "all", but I'll give it to you: "almost all". 

But, can we create a budget as defined and outlined?

Correction, can we create another ... 

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I'm of the belief, that other schools, having now seen that UND can eliminate Women's Hockey, they too will be looking to get out from underneath the heavy costs from WH as well. Of course, that's only if they can make the numbers work themselves.  But I wouldn't be surprised that there aren't other schools out there examining how UND did it, 

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2 minutes ago, the green team said:

I'm of the belief, that other schools, having now seen that UND can eliminate Women's Hockey, they too will be looking to get out from underneath the heavy costs from WH as well. Of course, that's only if they can make the numbers work themselves.  But I wouldn't be surprised that there aren't other schools out there examining how UND did it, 

I get the impression the East coast schools run on much smaller budgets.  The Western D2s need a D1 women's sport to offset MIH, so they'll likely keep WIH.  UMn and UW aren't going anywhere.  Ohio State could make a move, but they have so much money a $1.5-2 million loss per year probably isn't a big deal.

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6 minutes ago, the green team said:

I'm of the belief, that other schools, having now seen that UND can eliminate Women's Hockey, they too will be looking to get out from underneath the heavy costs from WH as well. Of course, that's only if they can make the numbers work themselves.  But I wouldn't be surprised that there aren't other schools out there examining how UND did it, 

I think it's only a matter of time before the financial realities force the issue at St. Cloud, Mankato and Bemidji. Maybe Duluth, too. The problem is that dropping women's hockey at those schools would likely require also dropping football. That nearly happened at St. Cloud a few years ago, so it's not necessarily all that far-fetched.

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17 minutes ago, UNDBIZ said:

I get the impression the East coast schools run on much smaller budgets.  The Western D2s need a D1 women's sport to offset MIH, so they'll likely keep WIH.  UMn and UW aren't going anywhere.  Ohio State could make a move, but they have so much money a $1.5-2 million loss per year probably isn't a big deal.

Minnesota will put up with $20 million a year losses before 86'ing that program.  They'll fund it at ALL costs now. 

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Just now, Siouxphan27 said:

 Times have sure changed from Money for nothing and the chicks skate free.  

That ain't workin', that's the way you do it. 

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So it would have been better to cut the program during the season?  Before?

I don't get the logic in some of these articles.

 

 

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5 hours ago, UND92,96 said:

I think it's only a matter of time before the financial realities force the issue at St. Cloud, Mankato and Bemidji. Maybe Duluth, too. The problem is that dropping women's hockey at those schools would likely require also dropping football. That nearly happened at St. Cloud a few years ago, so it's not necessarily all that far-fetched.

I don't see FB being dropped anytime soon at those 3.  If anywhere was the closest its SCSU.  Mankato if perhaps they never replace their stadium anytime soon

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As for the Lammy's:

Do I understand their anger? Yes

Do I agree with their methods in approaching this: Not really

Will I still support them in 2018 in Korea?  Hell yes.

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17 hours ago, 82SiouxGuy said:

 

Actually, the Lamoureux siblings have 0 National titles at UND.

fixed

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2 hours ago, AJS said:

So Berndsen could have played a number of places, yet she didn't have a single point? If I were her, I would keep my mouth shut and not draw attention to my lack of production. 

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2 hours ago, SWSiouxMN said:

As for the Lammy's:

Do I understand their anger? Yes

Do I agree with their methods in approaching this: Not really

Will I still support them in 2018 in Korea?  Hell yes.

Wake me up when they play Canada for the gold.   11-0 semifinal games, no thanks.  

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