2017 Season

[BarnWinterSportsEngelstad]

UND's most potential season in Div I FB is suffering due to injuries. We just need to regroup and play respectable here on out.

[Feff]

My expectations for this season have changed. Playoffs are a pipe dream now. Even if we win out, we've lost a whole lot of credibility. Therefore, my hope for the rest of the season is that the coaches right the ship and start building that credibility back up. The program has fallen on it's face and done it in a national spotlight with the rankings that we've had. Gotta get some of that respect back for future seasons. 

[AJS]

9 minutes ago, Feff said:

My expectations for this season have changed. Playoffs are a pipe dream now. Even if we win out, we've lost a whole lot of credibility. Therefore, my hope for the rest of the season is that the coaches right the ship and start building that credibility back up. The program has fallen on it's face and done it in a national spotlight with the rankings that we've had. Gotta get some of that respect back for future seasons. 

Unfortunately, perception sometimes is reality when it comes to respect, credibility in sports. Although injuries are an excuse when it's at the magnitude UND is currently at and I have no doubt UND will be successful once again as early as next year, they are basically going to have to start over building up their credibility on a national landscape. A lot of what Bubba helped build from a hype, excitement, credibility standpoint are gone.

All is not lost even this year, there is still time to start to pick up the pieces starting next week. I still can't believe the scores the last two weekends.

[Midwestern Hawk]

16 minutes ago, AJS said:

Unfortunately, perception sometimes is reality when it comes to respect, credibility in sports. Although injuries are an excuse when it's at the magnitude UND is currently at and I have no doubt UND will be successful once again as early as next year, they are basically going to have to start over building up their credibility on a national landscape. A lot of what Bubba helped build from a hype, excitement, credibility standpoint are gone.

All is not lost even this year, there is still time to start to pick up the pieces starting next week. I still can't believe the scores the last two weekends.

The defense is not good right now and that is what BUbba builds around.  Offense not good either, which is making defensive problems even worse.

[Irish]

23 minutes ago, Feff said:

My expectations for this season have changed. Playoffs are a pipe dream now. Even if we win out, we've lost a whole lot of credibility. Therefore, my hope for the rest of the season is that the coaches right the ship and start building that credibility back up. The program has fallen on it's face and done it in a national spotlight with the rankings that we've had. Gotta get some of that respect back for future seasons. 

My expectations have been adjusted too.  Right now I am just hoping for respectability.  Although the number of injuries are ridiculous, in my head at least,  each successive recruiting class was getting bigger, stronger, and faster.  I'm not sure that is the case.  In any case, we need to stop the total lack of discipline and crap the bed play we have seen the last two weeks and start to look like a football team again, regardless of who is playing.  I'm worried that one chink in the Bubba Ball mentality is that the coaches are inflexible - a square peg, round hole mentality.  We need some serious adjustments according to who is healthy.  We can't continue to try pound a 185 pound running back up the middle behind a line that gets no push.  Even though the playoffs may be out, this stretch will have serious implications as to the respect our program gets and for keeping the continued goodwill and support of the fans.  Time for the coaches to earn their keep.  

[Sioux94]

42 minutes ago, Irish said:

  I'm worried that one chink in the Bubba Ball mentality is that the coaches are inflexible - a square peg, round hole mentality.  We need some serious adjustments according to who is healthy.  We can't continue to try pound a 185 pound running back up the middle behind a line that gets no push.  Even though the playoffs may be out, this stretch will have serious implications as to the respect our program gets and for keeping the continued goodwill and support of the fans.  Time for the coaches to earn their keep.  

Exactly this.  I know we want out identity to be pound the rock, but the only thing we've done to start each game with this year in the first half is to prove that we can NOT run the ball!!  Then we start airing it out a little and then all of the sudden we start to get some success on the ground....imagine that.  We had 47 yards of offense in the first half before that long pass play to Mercer.  Coaches need to figure out we don't have the OL to come out of the gate and just try and pound the rock against good teams. 

[Dustin]

Probably repeating what dozens of others have said, but I didn't have the heart to read through all of the football related posts over the last couple days.  I think our offense is actually pretty decent, just need to utilize it properly.  We've got a smart and effective quarterback along with some talented receivers.  Studs has typically played well when there's been a sense of urgency.  At 1-3, this season is at a great sense of urgency.  Let's get the passing game going, and let it open up the run.  Defensively, we're tired and broken.  If the defense could have stopped any of those third down plays, and given the ball back to the offense, it's a competitive game.  It appears we're going to have to win games with our offense, and hope our defense can get more stops than the opponent's defense.

[UNDBIZ]

FCOA talk moved to:

 

[77iceman]

Go Hawks!!

 

Nothing more to really say at this point.

[UND-FB-FAN]

Injuries are definitely hurting UND, but you don't go from 9-3 to 1-10 based purely on injuries. Recruiting is the lifeblood of college football; if UND fails to at least win more games than they lose, then thats a sign that Bubba's recruiting classes have been overrated (I apologize to the student-athletes of those classes, this is purely from a football standpoint). I'm doubting these recent recruiting classes at the moment - too much attrition and too much inability to execute on the field.

In all honestly, the best players on this team are Mussman recruits - Reyes, D. Harris, Stockwell, Studsrud (all of which are injured minus Studsrud). Hell, as we saw late in the game vs Montana State, the backup QBs that Bubba and Rudolph have recruited are completely horrible. Just an example of depth holes along the entire roster.

Need better coaching/teaching and recruiting so such collapses as the one we are witnessing don't happen when injuries go against you. 

 

[LkvlleUNDFan]

1 hour ago, UND-FB-FAN said:

Injuries are definitely hurting UND, but you don't go from 9-3 to 1-10 based purely on injuries. Recruiting is the lifeblood of college football; if UND fails to at least win more games than they lose, then thats a sign that Bubba's recruiting classes have been overrated (I apologize to the student-athletes of those classes, this is purely from a football standpoint). I'm doubting these recent recruiting classes at the moment - too much attrition and too much inability to execute on the field.

In all honestly, the best players on this team are Mussman recruits - Reyes, D. Harris, Stockwell, Studsrud (all of which are injured minus Studsrud). Hell, as we saw late in the game vs Montana State, the backup QBs that Bubba and Rudolph have recruited are completely horrible. Just an example of depth holes along the entire roster.

Need better coaching/teaching and recruiting so such collapses as the one we are witnessing don't happen when injuries go against you. 

 

With all due respect, the last group of Mussman recruits are seniors - so they should be among your better players. You're leaving out some awfully talented players, starting with Santiago and Oliveira, along with Wanzek and Toivenen who are not flashy but young and solid at the WR spot. Mason Bennett, Donnell Rodgers are bona fide playmakers. Evan Holm looks to be the real deal. We're all tired of hearing about Elijah Grady, but you have to include him when you're talking about recruits. It's not all doom and gloom.

There's no question that there's reason to be concerned about the results on the field, but I challenge anyone to play a game without 60% of your starting OL, your two NFL prospect DBs and several of the backups, and your best LBs and see what happens. This team looked good in Utah, looked good against Missouri State (yeah, I know...), but then the injuries started to mount. When that happens you lose talent, you lose leadership, you lose experience. I realize message boards are a place to vent, and we all had high expectations coming into this season, but I'm not ready to start doubting the staff that we were all praising a year ago.

[Nodak78]

4 minutes ago, LkvlleUNDFan said:

With all due respect, the last group of Mussman recruits are seniors - so they should be among your better players. You're leaving out some awfully talented players, starting with Santiago and Oliveira, along with Wanzek and Toivenen who are not flashy but young and solid at the WR spot. Mason Bennett, Donnell Rodgers are bona fide playmakers. Evan Holm looks to be the real deal. We're all tired of hearing about Elijah Grady, but you have to include him when you're talking about recruits. It's not all doom and gloom.

There's no question that there's reason to be concerned about the results on the field, but I challenge anyone to play a game without 60% of your starting OL, your two NFL prospect DBs and several of the backups, and your best LBs and see what happens. This team looked good in Utah, looked good against Missouri State (yeah, I know...), but then the injuries started to mount. When that happens you lose talent, you lose leadership, you lose experience. I realize message boards are a place to vent, and we all had high expectations coming into this season, but I'm not ready to start doubting the staff that we were all praising a year ago.

Well said

[iramurphy]

We can fuss about the injuries and we can lament what could have been.  On the other hand I would love to break down the film and challenge these kids to fix what we did wrong.  I think I saw us run ourselves out of position on defense multiple times.  Our LB's and DB's can correct being out of position.  I didn't  think our D-line played well but they are capable.  We need out O-line to get better each game.  It would be nice to be bigger and faster but then we need to play smarter and tougher.  I think our coaches and players are more frustrated than we are.  Our areas of strength ( RB's, D-line, receivers and Senior QB)  need to improve the play of those around them as well as their own play.  We can't have receivers dropping the ball and we can't have a QB mismanage the clock and miss receivers.  We can't have our D-line  pushed around.  No more dumb ass penalties.  We aren't good enough right now to overcome them.  We don't worry about conference championships nor playoffs.  We  concentrate on  doing our job.  If we can beat the guy across from us on a given play, we need to figure out how to make every play a given play.  No more excuses about who is hurt, being too small  or who the OC is.  It starts by looking within and digging deeper.  You can't afford to let your man beat you.  Whatever it takes for each of these guys to keep from getting beat on that next play.  If we are completely overmatched at a certain position that is where the coaching staff needs to make adjustments.  It was a total team disaster and it will take the entire team to turn it around this Saturday. Our linemen and linebackers are big enough if they play smarter, faster and tougher. I would tell this team that. I would tell them  that now it is going to get fun to see what we are made of.  Are we going to be guys who our teammates can count on and go to battle with or are we going to fuss bout weighing only 215 lbs instead of 230 lbs or only 280 lbs instead of 310?   We have to be able to overcome adversity in order to be a champion.  I would challenge these kids to figure out who they want to be as a FB player and a man,  then go out and get the job done.  Coaches need to keep things simple right now.  Bubba can figure out if he needs to make changes in the staff at the end of the year, but right now if he has a weak link he and the other coaches need to help out so the weak link is protected.  This should be when coaching gets fun.  It's a lot more challenging to  have to figure out a way to convince these kids to play better than their  talent level and overcome adversity than to make excuses and go through the motions.   If we can do that, we  may be surprised and the record will take care of itself.  We aren't going to replay the last 2 games. Bubba has worked his ass off the improve attendance and the game experience.  I am going to continue to support the kids and Bubba cuz that is my job as a fan and alumnus.  If I fail to do that, then I am part of the problem not part of the solution. I am still disappointed in some of the coaching decisions and  I am not blind and I can find areas where the kids and coaches deserve the criticism.  After awhile I would rather focus my attention  to watch and see how our staff and kids respond to adversity.  How they do that can have a real positive impact on the future of the program.  I also have had a good time tailgating and talking smart with friends and other fans.  Keeping up that energy is good for the future of the program.  Losing like we did sucks and there is no excuse but now is the time to move on and regroup.  Go Hawks, Sioux or what ever strikes your fancy. 

[UND-FB-FAN]

10 minutes ago, LkvlleUNDFan said:

With all due respect, the last group of Mussman recruits are seniors - so they should be among your better players. You're leaving out some awfully talented players, starting with Santiago and Oliveira, along with Wanzek and Toivenen who are not flashy but young and solid at the WR spot. Mason Bennett, Donnell Rodgers are bona fide playmakers. Evan Holm looks to be the real deal. We're all tired of hearing about Elijah Grady, but you have to include him when you're talking about recruits. It's not all doom and gloom.

There's no question that there's reason to be concerned about the results on the field, but I challenge anyone to play a game without 60% of your starting OL, your two NFL prospect DBs and several of the backups, and your best LBs and see what happens. This team looked good in Utah, looked good against Missouri State (yeah, I know...), but then the injuries started to mount. When that happens you lose talent, you lose leadership, you lose experience. I realize message boards are a place to vent, and we all had high expectations coming into this season, but I'm not ready to start doubting the staff that we were all praising a year ago.

I'm focusing on results. We can baby the injury situation all we want, but the bottomline is UND hasn't even been competitive the past two games against two teams they beat just last season! That goes beyond injuries, period. 

Im not jumping off any ledges, but there's reason to be concerned with the lack of depth and the last two efforts. To ignore that is blatant negligence and I sure hope Bubba and his staff aren't doing that. Happy to hear the players had a players-only meeting to try right the ship. There are leadership and execution issues right now; let's just hope there isn't talent issues with the young guys out there now, too.

This team can play way, way better with the players that are available right now. 

[Midwestern Hawk]

This team was much closer to what is expected vs Montana state than South Dakota. 

First defensive drive was a three and out which reminded me of last years defense. The first offensive drive was best drive in awhile and had a touchdown called back because of a bad call.  

The defense was much better getting the bobcats to third down but several times came up a yard or two short.  We just needed 4-5 stops and a couple of offensive drives and the result could have been different.  Have to find a way to cause some negative plays for the opposing offense.  Not sure of the exact results, but don't recall many negative plays for the bobcats.  It's getting closer.  Hopefully will find. Few of those needed plays vs Davis.

 

[AJS]

12 minutes ago, Midwestern Hawk said:

This team was much closer to what is expected vs Montana state than South Dakota. 

First defensive drive was a three and out which reminded me of last years defense. The first offensive drive was best drive in awhile and had a touchdown called back because of a bad call.  

The defense was much better getting the bobcats to third down but several times came up a yard or two short.  We just needed 4-5 stops and a couple of offensive drives and the result could have been different.  Have to find a way to cause some negative plays for the opposing offense.  Not sure of the exact results, but don't recall many negative plays for the bobcats.  It's getting closer.  Hopefully will find. Few of those needed plays vs Davis.

 

Agreed, although like the USD game, I think if UND / MSU play 10 times, 49-21 is the biggest points difference you'd see. In the last two games, things have went about as poorly as they could. Positive side is I'd argue it wasn't for a lack of effort last Saturday, things just started to snowball again. 13-17 on 3rd / 4th down is just absurd. It comes down to making plays of course, but Murray single handily put on a show. 

UND won't see an elite QB like they've seen the past two weeks until the last game of the year. My hope is the players only meeting will jump start a couple wins against teams they should beat, even with a depleted roster. IF things don't get turned around against Davis / UNC, then I will start to become very concerned. 

[SIOUXFAN97]

if montana state wanted to they could've score 70+ on us...imo they really really took it easy on us.

[MoSiouxFan]

52 minutes ago, LkvlleUNDFan said:

With all due respect, the last group of Mussman recruits are seniors - so they should be among your better players. You're leaving out some awfully talented players, starting with Santiago and Oliveira, along with Wanzek and Toivenen who are not flashy but young and solid at the WR spot. Mason Bennett, Donnell Rodgers are bona fide playmakers. Evan Holm looks to be the real deal. We're all tired of hearing about Elijah Grady, but you have to include him when you're talking about recruits. It's not all doom and gloom.

There's no question that there's reason to be concerned about the results on the field, but I challenge anyone to play a game without 60% of your starting OL, your two NFL prospect DBs and several of the backups, and your best LBs and see what happens. This team looked good in Utah, looked good against Missouri State (yeah, I know...), but then the injuries started to mount. When that happens you lose talent, you lose leadership, you lose experience. I realize message boards are a place to vent, and we all had high expectations coming into this season, but I'm not ready to start doubting the staff that we were all praising a MONTH ago.

FYP.

[fightingsioux4life]

1 hour ago, LkvlleUNDFan said:

With all due respect, the last group of Mussman recruits are seniors - so they should be among your better players. You're leaving out some awfully talented players, starting with Santiago and Oliveira, along with Wanzek and Toivenen who are not flashy but young and solid at the WR spot. Mason Bennett, Donnell Rodgers are bona fide playmakers. Evan Holm looks to be the real deal. We're all tired of hearing about Elijah Grady, but you have to include him when you're talking about recruits. It's not all doom and gloom.

There's no question that there's reason to be concerned about the results on the field, but I challenge anyone to play a game without 60% of your starting OL, your two NFL prospect DBs and several of the backups, and your best LBs and see what happens. This team looked good in Utah, looked good against Missouri State (yeah, I know...), but then the injuries started to mount. When that happens you lose talent, you lose leadership, you lose experience. I realize message boards are a place to vent, and we all had high expectations coming into this season, but I'm not ready to start doubting the staff that we were all praising a year ago.

Agree with all of this. I have never seen another team sustain this many injuries in such a short period of time. The idea that we are supposed to just keep winning despite all of this is pure wishful thinking. I don't think this will happen next season and I think this team rebounds big time once everyone comes back.

[Fry Bread]

Simply stated, I challenge all players to do their best next week. Win or lose, do your best and the week after I will be cheering you in Grand Forks. I tip my hat to the young, undersized players who have been taking the field the past couple weeks and giving it your best. Can't wait to see what you've become in a year or two. 

[Sioux>Bison]

3 hours ago, LkvlleUNDFan said:

With all due respect, the last group of Mussman recruits are seniors - so they should be among your better players. You're leaving out some awfully talented players, starting with Santiago and Oliveira, along with Wanzek and Toivenen who are not flashy but young and solid at the WR spot. Mason Bennett, Donnell Rodgers are bona fide playmakers. Evan Holm looks to be the real deal. We're all tired of hearing about Elijah Grady, but you have to include him when you're talking about recruits. It's not all doom and gloom.

There's no question that there's reason to be concerned about the results on the field, but I challenge anyone to play a game without 60% of your starting OL, your two NFL prospect DBs and several of the backups, and your best LBs and see what happens. This team looked good in Utah, looked good against Missouri State (yeah, I know...), but then the injuries started to mount. When that happens you lose talent, you lose leadership, you lose experience. I realize message boards are a place to vent, and we all had high expectations coming into this season, but I'm not ready to start doubting the staff that we were all praising a year ago.

As a Packer fan I can relate to this post to the what is happening to UND. Look at a Aaron Rodgers and his injury ridden offensive line. He couldn't get anything going against the bengals and we also know they struggle running without a passing game. UND is experiencing the same thing. Until our backup young linemen get experience it may be rough for a few games. I don't think it's fair to expect this team to be a top 10 team with this many 2nd and 3rd string players. I do think we should be more competitive than the last two games but we just need to give it some time to these players to get the hang of their positions. I think Rudy needs to play call like it's the 4th quarter game winning drive on every possession because we need a high scoring offense to help out our defense. PASS MORE! I'm not ready to give up on this team and I don't think they are tarnishing the UND reputation they are trying to build. I know many are saying injuries are not an excuse because we should have more depth, but the amount is just overwhelming that a guy can't fairly blame anyone for these loses against some really good opponents.

[AJS]

I want to look at the defensive side of the ball. With all the talk about injuries and lack of depth, is that actually the case all over the board or is it strictly ILB? How different would the result be last Saturday if everything was the same injury wise, but you had a healthy Rodgers / Larson and moved Disterhaupt to the outside? ILB was the weak position coming into this year and the worst case scenario happened with Rodgers / Larson / Hunt all being injured. Teams are attacking the weakness and UND can't stop it. I can't emphasis enough how big of a difference that would make. The defense would look completely different.

Look at the defensive roster in the years to come, these being the underclassman that could have or will see the field this year, that will play major rolls in the future. Outside of Larson, this isn't counting any Freshman that will RS this year (look defensive line recruits). Guys that if not already will be excellent college players. 

DL - Bennett (So)

OLB - Lawrence (So), Haas (Fr)

ILB - Rodgers (So), Larson (Fr), Hunt (Fr), Rastas (Fr - after he puts on weight)

CB - Holm (So), Hunt (So), Blubaugh (Fr)

Safety - Shannon (Fr), Randolph (Fr)

I'm definitely missing players that will contribute (ex: Wilson, Turner), but my point being outside of ILB, I don't think depth is an issue. It's just such a severe issue at ILB that it's causing what we see now. Like others have mentioned, the defense played well in it's first two games, it's just one injury (Rodgers) really changed the trajectory or the year, compounding the fact that Larson wasn't ready to go either. Let's hope they can ready the ship in the upcoming games, but the future is really bright for the defensive unit starting next year. The ironic thing is the ILB position will quickly become over the next couple years, possibly the biggest strength of the defense.

[Midwestern Hawk]

10 minutes ago, AJS said:

I want to look at the defensive side of the ball. With all the talk about injuries and lack of depth, is that actually the case all over the board or is it strictly ILB? How different would the result be last Saturday if everything was the same injury wise, but you had a healthy Rodgers / Larson and moved Disterhaupt to the outside? ILB was the weak position coming into this year and the worst case scenario happened with Rodgers / Larson / Hunt all being injured. Teams are attacking the weakness and UND can't stop it. I can't emphasis enough how big of a difference that would make. The defense would look completely different.

Look at the defensive roster in the years to come, these being the underclassman that could have or will see the field this year, that will play major rolls in the future. Outside of Larson, this isn't counting any Freshman that will RS this year (look defensive line recruits). Guys that if not already will be excellent college players. 

DL - Bennett (So)

OLB - Lawrence (So), Haas (Fr)

ILB - Rodgers (So), Larson (Fr), Hunt (Fr), Rastas (Fr - after he puts on weight)

CB - Holm (So), Hunt (So), Blubaugh (Fr)

Safety - Shannon (Fr), Randolph (Fr)

I'm definitely missing players that will contribute (ex: Wilson, Turner), but my point being outside of ILB, I don't think depth is an issue. It's just such a severe issue at ILB that it's causing what we see now. Like others have mentioned, the defense played well in it's first two games, it's just one injury (Rodgers) really changed the trajectory or the year, compounding the fact that Larson wasn't ready to go either. Let's hope they can ready the ship in the upcoming games, but the future is really bright for the defensive unit starting next year. The ironic thing is the ILB position will quickly become over the next couple years, possibly the biggest strength of the defense.

I agree wholeheartedly with your post.  I think next year and subsequent years the defense could be lights out with the depth that we will have.  I also think for recruiting, fan excitement, player/coach morale we have to find a way to salvage 5 more wins this season.

 If that comes down to burning redshirt(Larson), does it get done?    I would guess it depends on part on the return of hunt and/or Rodgers.

[AJS]

Like on defense, injuries have taken place in the worst possible position (O-Line) offensively. I think we need to cut the O-Line a little break replacing two senior tackles with a Freshman (first) start and Sophomore (2nd or 3rd start). Montana State might have the best front 7 in the Big Sky. The problem I see isn't necessarily talent, but the lack of Juniors on the roster. You only have two that will play this year Taylor (hurt) and Aplin. It's far from ideal, but the depth at tackles when both starters are out are Mortel (FR), Blair (So), Bennett (Fr), Russo (So). Tobin (Fr) has started since day one, Rooney (So) also starter since day 1. 

[AJS]

6 hours ago, UND-FB-FAN said:

Injuries are definitely hurting UND, but you don't go from 9-3 to 1-10 based purely on injuries. Recruiting is the lifeblood of college football; if UND fails to at least win more games than they lose, then thats a sign that Bubba's recruiting classes have been overrated (I apologize to the student-athletes of those classes, this is purely from a football standpoint). I'm doubting these recent recruiting classes at the moment - too much attrition and too much inability to execute on the field.

In all honestly, the best players on this team are Mussman recruits - Reyes, D. Harris, Stockwell, Studsrud (all of which are injured minus Studsrud). Hell, as we saw late in the game vs Montana State, the backup QBs that Bubba and Rudolph have recruited are completely horrible. Just an example of depth holes along the entire roster.

Need better coaching/teaching and recruiting so such collapses as the one we are witnessing don't happen when injuries go against you. 

 

Laid out my defense with a couple posts, but will respectfully disagree with you on basically every point. These last two games have been ugly, but I don't think you could be more wrong in saying injuries aren't the main reason or that Bubba's classes are overrated. I can't emphasis enough (and I'll say this for the last time, since I'm a broken record), that ILB injuries cost this team their defense (as long as Rodgers / Hunt are out). O-Line is now so young it's going to take a while for them to get up to speed. There's so much talent on this team, but it's tough when so many key positions are filled with underclassman.