UND to Summit/MVFC

[SiouxVolley]

15 minutes ago, planet2county said:

The post was not about Montana moving to the MWC.  Let me try this another way.  U Jamestown and VCSU have been tied together for a number of years.  The Jimmies have decided to move to GPAC because the administration felt it was best for their institution.  

U Montana/MSU are probably going to do what they think is best for their institutions despite whatever bonds that they have with other universities real or perceived.

 

 

A state board in Montana makes decisions on conference affiliations.  Not true for a private school like Jamestown or ND public schools.  Many states have boards that reserve the right to veto or influence conference decisions.  That how VA Tech got in before Syracuse to the ACC.  Syracuse had to wait for years, even though it was actually picked well before, because UVa was under heavy pressure by their board to get VA Tech in the ACC.  The VA board forced the ACC to choose VA Tech over Syracuse.

[SiouxVolley]

21 minutes ago, JohnboyND7 said:

Where is Idaho going to go? it's a cute little clause in the contract but....seriously...they have no options left. 

It can go back to the WAC on its own.  But the clause was there to protect it if the Montanas and UND had left before they joined the BSC.  That's why it's easy to see an argument that those four schools are operating with the same conference endpoint in mind.

[darell1976]

1 minute ago, SiouxVolley said:

A state board in Montana makes decisions on conference affiliations.  Not true for a private school like Jamestown or ND public schools.  Many states have boards that reserve the right to veto or influence conference decisions.  That how VA Tech got in before Syracuse to the ACC.  Syracuse had to wait for years, even though it was actually picked well before, because UVa was under heavy pressure by their board to get VA Tech in the ACC.  The VA board forced the ACC to choose VA Tech over Syracuse.

So if Montana and Montana State got invited in the MWC and UND didn't. Don't think the Montanas are going to decline the offer because we didn't get in. They will do whatever pleases their interests, just like NDSU and SDSU didn't wait for UND and USD before moving up. They did what's best for them. Schools should look out for themselves first, then worry about their neighbors. 

[SiouxVolley]

1 minute ago, darell1976 said:

So if Montana and Montana State got invited in the MWC and UND didn't. Don't think the Montanas are going to decline the offer because we didn't get in. They will do whatever pleases their interests, just like NDSU and SDSU didn't wait for UND and USD before moving up. They did what's best for them. Schools should look out for themselves first, then worry about their neighbors. 

There would have to be nearly a college sports apocalypse for that to happen.  The Montanas need like schools in finances, enrollment, and preferably academics.  They are out of their league with the current MWC, and their Presidents know it.

[planet2county]

I am not arguing for one conference or the other.  I am saying Montana's primary concern is not how UND is affected by decisions they make.  

[Gothmog]

3 hours ago, zonadub said:

Just have to wonder...

Why would UND leave the Big Sky, a destination conference, to join the Summit, a transition conference?

If NDSU gets an offer to go to the MVC (for example, if Missouri State or Wichita decide to move), they would not hesitate to leave UND and the South Dakota schools behind. Not saying it's going to happen, but believe Sioux Volley is right on the point that there are other schools that would be invited before NDSU, but the Summit is not a destination conference while the Big Sky is stable. Don't think NDSU will get an offer to go to an FBS conference anytime soon, but is there any doubt they would decline that? They have already proven that they won't bring UND with them in any conference changes.

Also, considering the affiliation agreement that Idaho has with the Big Sky that they can negate the move to the Big Sky if Montana, Montana State and/or UND are not conference members, it leads me to believe that if the Montanas, Idaho and NM State were to break away that UND would be included in the move. 

So, why should UND follow NDSU into the Summit, only to be left behind, when the Hawks are already in a top conference where they are included as a desireable partner that is now becoming a competitor in the revenue sports? UND is the flagship school of the state of North Dakota and should be the leader, not a follower to be jilted at the first drop of a napkin.

There a lot of "ifs" in there. I'd say you're missing the most likely "if": What if UND joins the Summit/MVFC and finds that it works out well for them? What difference does it really make if NDSU was there first? UND pretty much guaranteed that it would find itself in the position of following NDSU at some point when it decided not to move up with NDSU. That ship has sailed.

 

 

[SiouxVolley]

23 minutes ago, Gothmog said:

There a lot of "ifs" in there. I'd say you're missing the most likely "if": What if UND joins the Summit/MVFC and finds that it works out well for them? What difference does it really make if NDSU was there first? UND pretty much guaranteed that it would find itself in the position at some point when it decided not to move up with NDSU. That ship has sailed.

So why does NDSU refuse a home and away series with UND but signs them with Montana and Weber St?

[SiouxVolley]

58 minutes ago, planet2county said:

I am not arguing for one conference or the other.  I am saying Montana's primary concern is not how UND is affected by decisions they make.  

The Montana board makes conference decisions, not the schools alone.  That is common I'm many states.  The Board has a duty to look after both schools and both schools were very instrumental in getting the Big Sky to take UND and nearly USD.  The Board apparently sees wisdom in having close relationships with Idaho and Dakota schools.

The Montana Board probably knows history, in that Montana St used to be a Rocky Mountain Conference school until Colo St, Colo, Utah, Utah St Wyoming, and BYU left them in the dust and Montana and Idaho used to be in the precursor of the Pac8 until those schools effectively left them out.  Montana tried out the Skyline Conference with the big Utah and Colorado schools but was also left out when the big schools moved on.  The Big Sky was formed in response to Montana and Idaho schools being evicted from higher conference groupings.

The Dakota flagship schools are natural allies for a new conference  (except NDSU will not forgive MSU for cancelling a return game).

[planet2county]

With the University of Montana currently conducting a study on the financial feasibility of a move to the FBS, UM athletic director Jim O’Day has been questioned throughout the past two weeks on whether his school would be interested in joining the WAC.

O’Day told the Sporting News that an immediate decision is “practically impossible” and that “politics within the state of Montana could force the WAC to take Montana State, too.”

Fields didn’t speculate on the state’s politics.

Fields was AD @ Montana State at the time of the article (April 24, 2010)

[Gothmog]

36 minutes ago, SiouxVolley said:

So why does NDSU refuse a home and away series with UND but signs them with Montana and Weber St?

 

Relevance?

[JohnboyND7]

56 minutes ago, SiouxVolley said:

So why does NDSU refuse a home and away series with UND but signs them with Montana and Weber St?

Why sign a home-home when you can sign them for 2 home games?

[SooToo]

2 hours ago, JohnboyND7 said:

Why sign a home-home when you can sign them for 2 home games?

Speaks volumes about the institutional attitude of our potential new conference "friends."

[bincitysioux]

I just don't agree with the notion that joining SumValley would lead to droves of UND fans attending more road games.  I've been to several NCC venues prior to and during the transition, and have been to several Big Sky venues since joining that conference.  It has been my experience that roughly the same number of fans turn out regardless of the location, except for at NDSU of course.   

We can't even get our students to travel 6 blocks for football games, so I have a hard time believing ND fans are going to take over the Dakotadome in Vermillion....

[iramurphy]

9 hours ago, darell1976 said:

So if Montana and Montana State got invited in the MWC and UND didn't. Don't think the Montanas are going to decline the offer because we didn't get in. They will do whatever pleases their interests, just like NDSU and SDSU didn't wait for UND and USD before moving up. They did what's best for them. Schools should look out for themselves first, then worry about their neighbors. 

Montana and Montana State would decline the offer because it is a FB only conference and travel would not be advantageous. I also believe they both would consider that a backwards step.

[darell1976]

1 hour ago, iramurphy said:

Montana and Montana State would decline the offer because it is a FB only conference and travel would not be advantageous. I also believe they both would consider that a backwards step.

The MWC is not a football only conference.

[southpaw]

10 hours ago, iramurphy said:

Montana and Montana State would decline the offer because it is a FB only conference and travel would not be advantageous. I also believe they both would consider that a backwards step.

Going to the second best FBS conference in the West is a backwards step?

[UNDBIZ]

Getting the impression Ira read MWC as MVFC.

[iramurphy]

25 minutes ago, UNDBIZ said:

Getting the impression Ira read MWC as MVFC.

Sorry, you are correct

[Rick]

14 hours ago, bincitysioux said:

I just don't agree with the notion that joining SumValley would lead to droves of UND fans attending more road games.  I've been to several NCC venues prior to and during the transition, and have been to several Big Sky venues since joining that conference.  It has been my experience that roughly the same number of fans turn out regardless of the location, except for at NDSU of course.   

We can't even get our students to travel 6 blocks for football games, so I have a hard time believing ND fans are going to take over the Dakotadome in Vermillion....

This is exactly right.  Any UND Alumni within 200 miles of Greeley, Portland, etc, will drive to see UND play football.  And, they'll drive a lot farther to see UND play at Bozeman or Missoula.

[Gothmog]

15 hours ago, SooToo said:

Speaks volumes about the institutional attitude of our potential new conference "friends."

Are you suggesting that UND would not have negotiated a similarly one-sided deal with NDSU had it been in a position to do so? UND wanted and needed the games, NDSU didn't. Had the situation been reversed UND would certainly have used that advantage to negotiate a better deal for itself, as would any institution. That's life.

 

 

[SooToo]

14 minutes ago, Gothmog said:

Are you suggesting that UND would not have negotiated a similarly one-sided deal with NDSU had it been in a position to do so? UND wanted and needed the games, NDSU didn't. Had the situation been reversed UND would certainly have used that advantage to negotiate a better deal for itself, as would any institution. That's life.

 

 

I asume you're not serious in throwing out the Godfather Defense ("Nothing personal. Just business") and were giggling when you typed this old whopper .UND didn't "need" these games anymore that Weber or Montana "needed" a series with the AC.This was a poison pill thrown out there to push back the discussion of a "rivalry renewal." UND, IMHO, accepted a bad deal because it's new coach -- God bless him -- was preoccupied with a rivalry from another era. Bitterness seems to run awfully deep within your fanbase and your institution.

[Gothmog]

14 minutes ago, SooToo said:

I asume you're not serious in throwing out the Godfather Defense ("Nothing personal. Just business") and were giggling when you typed this old whopper .UND didn't "need" these games anymore that Weber or Montana "needed" a series with the AC.This was a poison pill thrown out there to push back the discussion of a "rivalry renewal." UND, IMHO, accepted a bad deal because it's new coach -- God bless him -- was preoccupied with a rivalry from another era. Bitterness seems to run awfully deep within your fanbase and your institution.

It doesn't really matter whether UND actually "needed" the game or not. It thought it needed the games and it was willing to accept a one-sided deal to get them. Again, that's the way life is. If you want something someone else has, you're going to have to pay their price. No bitterness is necessary.

BTW - Don't forget that UND terminated the OOC series in the first place because it thought that it was not in its interest to schedule NDSU at all. IMO, it's hypocritical for UND to now say that NDSU was not entitled to act in its own best interest regarding renewing the series.

[darell1976]

6 hours ago, Gothmog said:

It doesn't really matter whether UND actually "needed" the game or not. It thought it needed the games and it was willing to accept a one-sided deal to get them. Again, that's the way life is. If you want something someone else has, you're going to have to pay their price. No bitterness is necessary.

BTW - Don't forget that UND terminated the OOC series in the first place because it thought that it was not in its interest to schedule NDSU at all. IMO, it's hypocritical for UND to now say that NDSU was not entitled to act in its own best interest regarding renewing the series.

Don't forget UND terminated the OOC with SDSU yet the Jacks had better class than NDSU and accepted a home/home with UND in 2010/2012. NDSU were still little pissy pants in Fargo. 

[Gothmog]

6 minutes ago, darell1976 said:

Don't forget UND terminated the OOC with SDSU yet the Jacks had better class than NDSU and accepted a home/home with UND in 2010/2012. NDSU were still little pissy pants in Fargo. 

SDSU gets to decide what is, and is not, in its best interest same as NDSU and UND. It's silly to expect that SDSU and NDSU's  interests would coincide

[darell1976]

20 minutes ago, Gothmog said:

SDSU gets to decide what is, and is not, in its best interest same as NDSU and UND. It's silly to expect that SDSU and NDSU's  interests would coincide

DI games vs DI games.