jdub27 Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 I'm sure the NFL and Dan aren't shedding any tears as fans stock up on 'skins gear. Sort of like how people, including me, bought up Sioux gear before it went away. I was included in that group as well. My point was that it is an issue that isn't going to go away or improve and it becomes a balance of whether the negative connotations and publicity are worth it. For multiple reasons in UND case, the situation was a net negative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetch Posted July 1, 2015 Author Share Posted July 1, 2015 the only negative was sanctions from the ncaa & other PC bullies saying they would not play us 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdub27 Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 the only negative was sanctions from the ncaa & other PC bullies saying they would not play us Not to mention the continued negative press and attention that was drawn to UND and brought up any time UND was in the news because of it or the resources that have continued to be allocated towards it. I'd prefer to talk about the performance on the field/ice/court/classroom rather than what's on the front of the jerseys. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 the only negative was sanctions from the ncaa & other PC bullies saying they would not play us That alone makes it very "net negative" for the University (meaning add the good, pluses, and the bad, negatives, together and it comes out negative). Not to mention the continued negative press and attention that was drawn to UND and brought up any time UND was in the news because of it or the resources that have continued to be allocated towards it. I'd prefer to talk about the performance on the field/ice/court/classroom rather than what's on the front of the jerseys. Those factors only compound the net negative problem. I said to PCM probably a decade ago: You'll know the very instant the name is a net negative; that's the instant the name goes away, but not before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goon Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 Was everybody not already aware it was a small group of UND employees leading the charge against the Sioux name? Most of my professors from the Sociology Department signed that letter. That letter was common knowledge back when it came out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetch Posted July 1, 2015 Author Share Posted July 1, 2015 Was Kelly here during the grace period the NCAA gave to get the tribes to agree ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 Was Kelly here during the grace period the NCAA gave to get the tribes to agree ? It was all "grace period" before the NCAA came up with this policy. Starcher, Clifford, none of them got formal agreements in place with the tribes (when it would've been far easier and less politically charged). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetch Posted July 1, 2015 Author Share Posted July 1, 2015 But he did nothing in the last effort to rally any or all the potential players to try & persuade SR to vote - just seems like no one really gave it any real unified effort Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 But he did nothing in the last effort to rally any or all the potential players to try & persuade SR to vote - just seems like no one really gave it any real unified effort You can't negotiate with an empty chair. And Standing Rock never sat down. Anyway, ... Stenehjem, who outlined the agreement earlier for tribal officials, said he believes negotiations over the nickname and logo should be led by top-level state officials. That agreement was October 2007. Kelley came in July 2008. The wheels were in motion before Kelley got here. Looking to be mad at someone, blame the "top-level state officials" ... the Governor et al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetch Posted July 1, 2015 Author Share Posted July 1, 2015 I do Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hayduke Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 The lack of meaningful conversation and bridge building between the University and the tribes and tribal governments is what ultimately put the Fighting Sioux name under. But there's lots of blame to go around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigskyvikes Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 The lack of meaningful conversation and bridge building between the University and the tribes and tribal governments is what ultimately put the Fighting Sioux name under. But there's lots of blame to go around. They commented about this point also, and said the elders that denied the vote were pissed because they asked for some percentage of the name and logo sales, but UND never agreed to it. That in itself seems very wrong to me, and where I would start on dishing out blame! One elder also had one of his kids go to UND and that person was supposedly harrassed about being Sioux...from people on campus? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetch Posted July 3, 2015 Author Share Posted July 3, 2015 The lack of meaningful conversation and bridge building between the University and the tribes and tribal governments is what ultimately put the Fighting Sioux name under. But there's lots of blame to go around. Without doubt this was the saddest part about why we lost the name Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hayduke Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 They commented about this point also, and said the elders that denied the vote were pissed because they asked for some percentage of the name and logo sales, but UND never agreed to it. That in itself seems very wrong to me, and where I would start on dishing out blame! One elder also had one of his kids go to UND and that person was supposedly harrassed about being Sioux...from people on campus? Ill have to spend some time listening to this. Although I might be a bit skeptical about what was said by tribal elders, I would definately lay most of the blame for what happened at UND's feet for not creating a better relationship. If you have a Native American nickname, you better cultivate a relationship that will allow you to keep that nickname without major concern of a backlash. They didn't. Schools like Florida State and Utah did. Thus, the upcoming name change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigskyvikes Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 Ill have to spend some time listening to this. Although I might be a bit skeptical about what was said by tribal elders, I would definately lay most of the blame for what happened at UND's feet for not creating a better relationship. If you have a Native American nickname, you better cultivate a relationship that will allow you to keep that nickname without major concern of a backlash. They didn't. Schools like Florida State and Utah did. Thus, the upcoming name change. It was interesting, but some things were a little tough to listen to. Almost embarrassing to hear, little far fetched things added, and the guy doing the interview, (from GF) was annoying. Always cutting in on them...I thought Eunice was good, to the point and made sense, her husband also, I read her book, a lot of behind the scenes things happened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetch Posted July 3, 2015 Author Share Posted July 3, 2015 Yeah I'd probably not listen to that show again But it was the 1st time I'd heard Eunice & she did a good job - I wish there were more interest but I doubt she will find much to really change the situation - it would be amazing if she & other Native Americans really got organized & could show how pizzed they are about losing the name - like they said being erased from history But I agree with them all - the name Fighting Sioux will last Forever Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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