Article in the Grand Forks Herald this week about Williston State has me very concerned. Williston State wants to establish a center in Williston to train Doctors, Nurses, Lab Techs and other health care professionals. Do the want another Med School? It appears so.
Bismarck and Williston both want 4 year colleges. North Dakota tax payers are already paying alot of money for what some would say to much higher education as it is.
I wrote about this a few years ago when the new Bismarck State Energy Center was opened to duplicate the one at UND. It amounts to stealing from one community to benefit another.
The lawmakers fom the Grand Forks area are going to have to start getting agressive. We cannot sit back and let other communities steal programs from UND. They should submit a bill saying no more 4 year colleges or no more duplication.
People love tax payer dollars when it benefits them even Conservatives. If UND and the Grand Forks Community doesn't take a stand now they will be sorry.
I wonder how this would fly in Fargo if someone proposed another Land Grant University somewhere in North Dakota. Wake up UND before it's to late.
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Williston State
Started by
moser53
, Aug 01 2012 06:53 PM
26 replies to this topic
#2
GeauxSioux
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Posted 01 August 2012 - 07:32 PM
I read the piece, but didn't read it the same way you did. I read it as they wanted to work with UND.
Also, I believe the constitution places the medical school at UND. I can't believe the state would support two medical schools. It makes more sense to keep the school at UND and have the students do their residency in Williston.
Quote
Grimshaw suggested integrating programs from the University of North Dakota medical school and Williston State College with educational opportunities at Mercy Medical Center and other regional partners.
"Let's train the next generation of students here," he said.
UND medical school dean Joshua Wynne said UND is working to meet the needs of western North Dakota, including expanding student and residency experiences in Williston. Doctors who are trained in North Dakota and do their residency in the state are more likely to work in the state, he said.
UND will push lawmakers next year to fund more residency positions.
"Let's train the next generation of students here," he said.
UND medical school dean Joshua Wynne said UND is working to meet the needs of western North Dakota, including expanding student and residency experiences in Williston. Doctors who are trained in North Dakota and do their residency in the state are more likely to work in the state, he said.
UND will push lawmakers next year to fund more residency positions.
#3
moser53
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Posted 01 August 2012 - 07:56 PM
Ralph Kingsbury has written about it in the Herald. His friends in Bismarck have told him they want and deserve a University with all the bells and whistles that the tax payers can give them. The point of my post is that other communities want to duplicate what UND has and offers. Let me ask you should there be more 4 year Universities in North Dakota.
#6
Cratter
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Posted 01 August 2012 - 09:21 PM
Didn't I just read he wants to train them "here" as in Williston? You start with "integrating" programs then move to get your own later. "look at the demand". Und shouldnt be training anyone in Williston. Make them go to UND like everyone else. Well before online education. Everyone deserves a college within fifty miles of them in ND.
"WILLISTON, N.D. (AP) — North Dakota should establish a center in Williston to train doctors, nurses, lab technicians and other health care professionals, the head of the hospital in the city told lawmakers."
Sounds like what a med school does!?
Why can't they go to UND? It's. The U of North Dakota not U of Eastern North Dakota!
"WILLISTON, N.D. (AP) — North Dakota should establish a center in Williston to train doctors, nurses, lab technicians and other health care professionals, the head of the hospital in the city told lawmakers."
Sounds like what a med school does!?
Why can't they go to UND? It's. The U of North Dakota not U of Eastern North Dakota!
#7
GeauxSioux
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Posted 01 August 2012 - 10:39 PM
I guess I was thinking more along the lines with what FSU does in Pensacola... Pensacola Campus - Pensacola Regional Medical School Campus - FSU College of Medicine
The real medical school is in Tallahassee and the regional campuses for training are under FSU's umbrella.
Didn't Williston used to be UND-Williston? Maybe if they want to train doctors, they should go back to that.
The real medical school is in Tallahassee and the regional campuses for training are under FSU's umbrella.
Didn't Williston used to be UND-Williston? Maybe if they want to train doctors, they should go back to that.
#8
moser53
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Posted 02 August 2012 - 07:17 PM
Cratter you are correct sir. I remember listening to Byron Dorgan a few years ago on KFGO talking about research at our Universities and in his comments he talked about having energy research in the western part of the state. So the boys in Bismarck have been after this for quiet awhile. The western part of the state has felt ignored for ever.
I see the UND Medical school got the cheapest option in there Capital Project Requests. 38.5 Million. Maybe the rest is going to go to Williston I wouldn't be surprised.
What are the Legislators going to do with all this oil money coming into the ND coffers. State government is no different than the federal government when it comes to funding things. Everyone has there own definition of whats right or fair.
North Dakota is run by the Republican Party and most Republicans or Conservatives on this board are 11th commandment Republicans. I believe they are more Republican then Sioux fans. Why I say this is because I believe they are about to sell us down the river.
Here's a prediction Bismarck State gets a 4 year college and becomes the states largest University. They get 15000 plus students and Bismarck grows to 75,000 in population. What happens to UND and Grand Forks is this 10,000 students if were lucky and Grand Forks loses population to below 50,000.
About 20 years ago Bismarck resident Kent French started a referral to stop the excesses of Higher Ed. Maybe I should start one to stop the expansion of 4 year colleges. Again I ask the question that no one has answered shouldn't there be a stop to any expansion of 4 year colleges.
I see the UND Medical school got the cheapest option in there Capital Project Requests. 38.5 Million. Maybe the rest is going to go to Williston I wouldn't be surprised.
What are the Legislators going to do with all this oil money coming into the ND coffers. State government is no different than the federal government when it comes to funding things. Everyone has there own definition of whats right or fair.
North Dakota is run by the Republican Party and most Republicans or Conservatives on this board are 11th commandment Republicans. I believe they are more Republican then Sioux fans. Why I say this is because I believe they are about to sell us down the river.
Here's a prediction Bismarck State gets a 4 year college and becomes the states largest University. They get 15000 plus students and Bismarck grows to 75,000 in population. What happens to UND and Grand Forks is this 10,000 students if were lucky and Grand Forks loses population to below 50,000.
About 20 years ago Bismarck resident Kent French started a referral to stop the excesses of Higher Ed. Maybe I should start one to stop the expansion of 4 year colleges. Again I ask the question that no one has answered shouldn't there be a stop to any expansion of 4 year colleges.
#11
UNDBIZ
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Posted 03 August 2012 - 09:38 AM
If Bismarck gets a 4-year university, then Valley City and Mayville should both be closed and Dickinson should become a 2-year. Yes, I realize this would require a constitutional amendment. Personally, I'm not worried about "Bismarck State University" competing with UND in terms of enrollment. It would take decades (I'd throw out a number around 40+ years) for BSU accumulate anything close to resembling the respect, DONORS, and athletics of UND. To be completely honest, I think Bismarck probably should have a 4-year state university (assuming previously mentioned teacher universities are closed/reduced to community colleges). Another thing to note is UMary will push very hard against a state university in Bismarck and UMary has a lot more swing with the legislature (especially the Bismarck reps who would otherwise be pushing for BSU) than a lot of people realize.
#13
The Sicatoka
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Posted 03 August 2012 - 10:38 AM
UNDBIZ, on 03 August 2012 - 09:38 AM, said:
If Bismarck gets a 4-year university, then Valley City and Mayville and Bottineau and Devils Lake should both all be closed and Dickinson should become a 2-year.
Everyone needs an editor.
#15
Hammersmith
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Posted 03 August 2012 - 12:02 PM
In a perfect world, ND would have no more than four 4-year schools and they would be in GF, Fargo, Minot & Bismarck. But there are two good reasons to give Dickinson the nod over Bismarck today. First, why replace existing infrastructure? But I like the second reason more. Dickinson has unique geography and geology in ND. It's roughly halfway between the prehistoric lake bed of the RRV and Yellowstone. It's fairly close to the Montana fossil beds and the Black Hills. It sits on the edge of the two most interesting geological features in ND: the Badlands and the Bakken. It's the closest major ND city to the Rocky Mountains. It would make sense to put the best geology, paleontology, archaeology, anthropology, etc. programs there. Maybe even a limited and very focused graduate school. I'd like to see Minot have something to focus on in the same way, but nothing comes to mind. Maybe languages? (proximity to Canada/Peace Garden)
In my perfect world, I'd like to see two existing colleges turned into true junior colleges. By that, I mean two-year schools with the same academic standards and rigor as the four-year programs. Schools who's purpose it is to feed students to the four-year schools. They would take students from the local area who want to save money on housing, but they would specialize in students that still need the small-class, small-school environment. The type of thing schools like Mayville are pushing. I agree there's a need for that type of environment, I just don't see the need for four years of it. By the third year in any program, class sizes are small and contact with the faculty is at a high level(even at UND & NDSU). I'd like to see these two schools be at Valley City and Bismarck. Worst case(IMO), Bismarck becomes the fourth four-year and Dickinson becomes the second junior.
As for Williston, it's the perfect place for the state's second trade school(along with Wahp). Have Williston focus on heavy equipment, energy and natural resources, while Wahp focuses on agriculture and technology. Both would have the full stable of the regular trade programs.
As for the rest(Bott, LR, & May), shut down Mayville and turn the other two into little outposts. Bott could become just a research/application station for the NDSU & Williston forestry programs(assuming Will has a two-year forestry program as part of its natural resources suite). LR could be left with a set of classrooms that are used by visiting instructors for intensive four- or six-week classes. For many classes, they could be set up for telepresence classes and the teachers stay at their regular schools.
Just about every campus would also have the regular community college type offerings, but those should be handled by a separate statewide system. The biggest problem I see in the NDUS is a loss of mission. Just about every campus is trying to do too much and failing at what should be it's core mission. We should also break up the NDUS and create between two to four separate systems. The four year schools(and maybe the prep schools) should form one system. The trade schools(and maybe the community college system) should form the second. You could also split one or both of those two systems up to create a third or fourth system.
Obviously I've thought about this from time to time. I don't really have a life.
In my perfect world, I'd like to see two existing colleges turned into true junior colleges. By that, I mean two-year schools with the same academic standards and rigor as the four-year programs. Schools who's purpose it is to feed students to the four-year schools. They would take students from the local area who want to save money on housing, but they would specialize in students that still need the small-class, small-school environment. The type of thing schools like Mayville are pushing. I agree there's a need for that type of environment, I just don't see the need for four years of it. By the third year in any program, class sizes are small and contact with the faculty is at a high level(even at UND & NDSU). I'd like to see these two schools be at Valley City and Bismarck. Worst case(IMO), Bismarck becomes the fourth four-year and Dickinson becomes the second junior.
As for Williston, it's the perfect place for the state's second trade school(along with Wahp). Have Williston focus on heavy equipment, energy and natural resources, while Wahp focuses on agriculture and technology. Both would have the full stable of the regular trade programs.
As for the rest(Bott, LR, & May), shut down Mayville and turn the other two into little outposts. Bott could become just a research/application station for the NDSU & Williston forestry programs(assuming Will has a two-year forestry program as part of its natural resources suite). LR could be left with a set of classrooms that are used by visiting instructors for intensive four- or six-week classes. For many classes, they could be set up for telepresence classes and the teachers stay at their regular schools.
Just about every campus would also have the regular community college type offerings, but those should be handled by a separate statewide system. The biggest problem I see in the NDUS is a loss of mission. Just about every campus is trying to do too much and failing at what should be it's core mission. We should also break up the NDUS and create between two to four separate systems. The four year schools(and maybe the prep schools) should form one system. The trade schools(and maybe the community college system) should form the second. You could also split one or both of those two systems up to create a third or fourth system.
Obviously I've thought about this from time to time. I don't really have a life.
#16
moser53
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Posted 03 August 2012 - 12:06 PM
UNDBIZ, on 03 August 2012 - 09:38 AM, said:
If Bismarck gets a 4-year university, then Valley City and Mayville should both be closed and Dickinson should become a 2-year. Yes, I realize this would require a constitutional amendment. Personally, I'm not worried about "Bismarck State University" competing with UND in terms of enrollment. It would take decades (I'd throw out a number around 40+ years) for BSU accumulate anything close to resembling the respect, DONORS, and athletics of UND. To be completely honest, I think Bismarck probably should have a 4-year state university (assuming previously mentioned teacher universities are closed/reduced to community colleges). Another thing to note is UMary will push very hard against a state university in Bismarck and UMary has a lot more swing with the legislature (especially the Bismarck reps who would otherwise be pushing for BSU) than a lot of people realize.
How long did it take NDSU to double it's enrollment. Not long. Don't wear blinders and Bismarck with all the advantages they already have over the rest of the state should not have a publicially funded 4 year state universitiy. Private yes.
How long did it take NDSU to double it's enrollment. Not long. Don't wear blinders and Bismarck with all the advantages they already have over the rest of the state should not have a publicially funded 4 year state universitiy. Private yes.
#17
The Sicatoka
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Posted 03 August 2012 - 02:49 PM
Hammersmith, on 03 August 2012 - 12:02 PM, said:
In my perfect world, ...
In my perfect world the western route that is today I-94 (and was US-10) would run where ND 200 runs today and North Dakota would have two universities: one at Mayville and one at Washburn. Of course, in that scenario Washburn would be "Mino-marck" and Mayville would be "Grand-go".
But we don't live in a perfect world. We live in this hyper-policized mess.
#18
Hammersmith
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Posted 03 August 2012 - 03:35 PM
The Sicatoka, on 03 August 2012 - 02:49 PM, said:
In my perfect world the western route that is today I-94 (and was US-10) would run where ND 200 runs today and North Dakota would have two universities: one at Mayville and one at Washburn. Of course, in that scenario Washburn would be "Mino-marck" and Mayville would be "Grand-go".
But we don't live in a perfect world. We live in this hyper-policized mess.
But we don't live in a perfect world. We live in this hyper-policized mess.
#19
JohnboyND7
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Posted 03 August 2012 - 03:38 PM
moser53, on 01 August 2012 - 06:53 PM, said:
Article in the Grand Forks Herald this week about Williston State has me very concerned. Williston State wants to establish a center in Williston to train Doctors, Nurses, Lab Techs and other health care professionals. Do the want another Med School? It appears so.
I wrote about this a few years ago when the new Bismarck State Energy Center was opened to duplicate the one at UND. It amounts to stealing from one community to benefit another.
The lawmakers fom the Grand Forks area are going to have to start getting agressive. We cannot sit back and let other communities steal programs from UND. They should submit a bill saying no more 4 year colleges or no more duplication.
People love tax payer dollars when it benefits them even Conservatives. If UND and the Grand Forks Community doesn't take a stand now they will be sorry.
I wonder how this would fly in Fargo if someone proposed another Land Grant University somewhere in North Dakota. Wake up UND before it's to late.
I wrote about this a few years ago when the new Bismarck State Energy Center was opened to duplicate the one at UND. It amounts to stealing from one community to benefit another.
The lawmakers fom the Grand Forks area are going to have to start getting agressive. We cannot sit back and let other communities steal programs from UND. They should submit a bill saying no more 4 year colleges or no more duplication.
People love tax payer dollars when it benefits them even Conservatives. If UND and the Grand Forks Community doesn't take a stand now they will be sorry.
I wonder how this would fly in Fargo if someone proposed another Land Grant University somewhere in North Dakota. Wake up UND before it's to late.
Weird, I bet you weren't complaining on Mayville and Valley City's behalf when UND added education. Or...well, NDSU is very good at mechanical and civil engineering. UND should just drop it right? Would you be upset if the state gave UND money to add a pharmacy program even though NDSU has one?
Just giving you crap. If you give them an inch, they'll take a mile, isn't that the saying? I think duplicating things that aren't necessary and just for the sake of doing it is ridiculous.
#20
moser53
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Posted 03 August 2012 - 04:22 PM
Johnboy I admit I'm not one of the most articulate posters out there but I got alot of heart for UND. What frustrates me to no end is when Energy centers, Medical schools leave UND's campus and no one seems to care. Contrast that with the people who love NDSU football. When someone put a bill in to force SU to play football on a yearly basis with UND SU fans rose up made alot of noise to do what they thought was in the best interest of NDSU football. I respect that.
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