98 replies to this topic

[WYOBISONMAN]

The North Dakota Legislature is notorious for trying to micro-manage Higher Ed in ND.  The Carlson nickname bill was just one of many attempts to weaken the autonomy of the SBOHE that is mandated by the ND Constitution.  I think that a ruling in favor of the SBOHE on retirement of the nick name would have potential huge ramifications in limiting the micro-management from the asshats in the ND Legislature.

[watchmaker49]

WYOBISONMAN, on 09 February 2012 - 10:12 AM, said:

The North Dakota Legislature is notorious for trying to micro-manage Higher Ed in ND.  The Carlson nickname bill was just one of many attempts to weaken the autonomy of the SBOHE that is mandated by the ND Constitution.  I think that a ruling in favor of the SBOHE on retirement of the nick name would have potential huge ramifications in limiting the micro-management from the asshats in the ND Legislature.

Which is what Carlson wanted in the first place.  To Carlson it was never about the logo being used or not.  He wants to know one way or another who is boss.

[Hayduke]

Good point.  However, somebody wrote that it may intensify an effort to get the issue on the ballot as a constituitonal amendment.   That would be the utimate disaster.  We need SR to vote or the SL lawsuit to win against the NCAA.

But, we really need cooler heads to prevail with this whole issue.

[DaveK]

Hayduke, on 09 February 2012 - 10:43 AM, said:

Good point.  However, somebody wrote that it may intensify an effort to get the issue on the ballot as a constituitonal amendment.   That would be the utimate disaster.  We need SR to vote or the SL lawsuit to win against the NCAA.

But, we really need cooler heads to prevail with this whole issue.

According to Archie Fool Bear, the recent successful petition was needed to give SR residents a chance to potentially still vote on the nickname. I have no doubt that SL will win their lawsuit, but it could take a few years. In the meantime we have to make sure the PC nazis who are currently calling the shots at UND/SBHE don't change the name on us while the lawsuit is still ongoing.

[JohnboyND7]

DaveK, on 09 February 2012 - 10:48 AM, said:

According to Archie Fool Bear, the recent successful petition was needed to give SR residents a chance to potentially still vote on the nickname. I have no doubt that SL will win their lawsuit, but it could take a few years. In the meantime we have to make sure the PC nazis who are currently calling the shots at UND/SBHE don't change the name on us while the lawsuit is still ongoing.

No doubt that SL will win?  Why doesn't the rest of Siouxsports share that opinion with you.  DId I also hear from a birdie that you aren't afraid of getting the banhammer from the lovely schools out west known as the Big Sky?  The longer this thing goes, the worse it is for UND.

[The Sicatoka]

DaveK, on 09 February 2012 - 10:48 AM, said:

According to Archie Fool Bear, the recent successful petition was needed to give SR residents a chance to potentially still vote on the nickname.

Sioux County is not Standing Rock.

The settlement agreement with the NCAA says a duly elected official or body of Standing Rock must convey their approval to the NCAA.

A vote by Sioux County is not that.

[dmksioux]

DaveK, on 09 February 2012 - 10:48 AM, said:

According to Archie Fool Bear, the recent successful petition was needed to give SR residents a chance to potentially still vote on the nickname. I have no doubt that SL will win their lawsuit, but it could take a few years. In the meantime we have to make sure the PC nazis who are currently calling the shots at UND/SBHE don't change the name on us while the lawsuit is still ongoing.

Stand Rock has already had the chance to vote.  They had the opportunity to vote for Tribal Council members who would support the Nickname.  Didn't Archie Fool Bear, or some other Nickname supporter run for election last summer and lose?  Even with the vote now, The NCAA has no intention of acknowledging the vote.  UND needs the approval of the tribal councils.  So support SL in it's lawsuit, but don't put the University in danger...which they already are.

[PhillySioux]

DaveK, on 09 February 2012 - 10:48 AM, said:

According to Archie Fool Bear, the recent successful petition was needed to give SR residents a chance to potentially still vote on the nickname. I have no doubt that SL will win their lawsuit, but it could take a few years. In the meantime we have to make sure the PC nazis who are currently calling the shots at UND/SBHE don't change the name on us while the lawsuit is still ongoing.

Well, if he means that folks SR tribal members could vote in the general election, that is technically correct.  If he means that a binding vote that the NCAA will accept per the settlement, he is dreaming.

[Fetch]

I did not like what Fullerton said all these negative possiblities & then ends with they will monitor it & see if there are protests at UND events once they are playing in the league

[PhillySioux]

Short of expulsion for the BigSky, A more realistic possibility (and their ByLaws allow them to do it) would be for the Sky to adopt the NCAA's sanctions in conference play.

Meaning, that UND would not be able to wear the logo or host conference playoffs.  That would be an relatively easy vote.

[Benny Baker]

The Constitution makes the SBOHE autonomous?  Don't think so.  Would it be unconstitutional for the legislature to decide the name of UND's hockey arena?  Would it be unconstitutional for the legislature to choose the language proficiency of UND's faculty, too?

[watchmaker49]

Benny Baker, on 10 February 2012 - 09:20 AM, said:

The Constitution makes the SBOHE autonomous?  Don't think so.  Would it be unconstitutional for the legislature to decide the name of UND's hockey arena?  Would it be unconstitutional for the legislature to choose the language proficiency of UND's faculty, too?

Yes.

[GeauxSioux]

Benny Baker, on 10 February 2012 - 09:20 AM, said:

The Constitution makes the SBOHE autonomous?  Don't think so.  Would it be unconstitutional for the legislature to decide the name of UND's hockey arena?  Would it be unconstitutional for the legislature to choose the language proficiency of UND's faculty, too?

From the ND Constitution...

Quote

The said state board of higher education shall have full authority over the
institutions under its control with the right, among its other powers, to prescribe,
limit, or modify the courses offered at the several institutions. In furtherance of
its powers, the state board of higher education shall have the power to delegate
to its employees details of the administration of the institutions under its control.
The said state board of higher education shall have full authority to organize or
reorganize within constitutional and statutory limitations, the work of each
institution under its control, and do each and everything necessary and proper
for the efficient and economic administration of said state educational
institutions.

[yababy8]

within 'statutory limitations' huh??
put that in your pipe and smoke it Mr. Shaft

[ScottM]

do each and everything necessary and proper for the efficient and economic administration of said state educational
institutions.


I do like that provision,

[yababy8]

ScottM, on 10 February 2012 - 10:36 AM, said:

do each and everything necessary and proper for the efficient and economic administration of said state educational
institutions.


I do like that provision,

not so much the within statutory limitations part though, huh?

[PhillySioux]

ScottM, on 10 February 2012 - 10:36 AM, said:

do each and everything necessary and proper for the efficient and economic administration of said state educational
institutions.


I do like that provision,

Scott,

Am I the only one that thinks a challenge under the contracts clause will be the better route?

It doesn't flaunt constitutional authority of the Board and it could head off a potential amendment.

[GeauxSioux]

yababy8, on 10 February 2012 - 10:07 AM, said:

within 'statutory limitations' huh??
put that in your pipe and smoke it Mr. Shaft

I believe this "The said state board of higher education shall have full authority to organize or
reorganize within constitutional and statutory limitations, the work of each
institution under its control, and do each and everything necessary and proper
for the efficient and economic administration of said state educational
institutions. limits the board from closing an constitutionally provided institution and reorganizing it somewhere else.

And I agree with Philly, the contracts clause is probably an easier target.

Edited by GeauxSioux, 10 February 2012 - 10:56 AM.

[The Sicatoka]

Like I said when Carlson's Folly first appeared, attempting to reneg on a legal contract (the settlement between State of North Dakota and the NCAA) is poor form and not how North Dakotans do business.

[Benny Baker]

GeauxSioux, on 10 February 2012 - 09:47 AM, said:

From the ND Constitution...

I agree, this is an interesting provision.  But I'm having trouble reconciling a few things.

From the ND Century Code:

15-11-38. Ralph Engelstad arena.
The hockey arena constructed on the campus of the university of North Dakota with funds
donated by Ralph and Betty Engelstad is officially named the Ralph Engelstad arena.

15-10-13.1. Faculty - English language proficiency.
Any professor, instructor, teacher, assistant, or graduate assistant at a state institution of
higher education must exhibit written and verbal proficiency in the English language. Any
deficiency must be remedied by special training or coursework provided by the institution.

So the SBOHE is fine with having the legislature choose the name of UND's hockey arena, but they're going to challenge the legislature's choice of the hockey team's name? Really?

But the legislature also mandates that faculty members speak and write English to a proficient degree.  For anyone familiar with the Century Code, they would also be aware of the fact the the legislature limits the SBOHE's student fee increases; requires the SBOHE to seek its approval when improving university land and infrastructure in several situations; and created multiple programs and consortiums at institutionals all throughout the state without the backing of the SBOHE.  This isn't even the tip of the ice berg, in fact, our state has multiple chapters of statutes that limit the SBOHE's supposed autonomy.

For those of you unaware of the history, the SBOHE was created because its predecessor, the board of administration, was free of legislative oversight.  Now the Senate must confirm the governor's appointments to the SBOHE.

So indeed, there are "stautory limits" far beyond reorganizing an institution elsewhere.  Such as choosing the name of the hockey arena, mandating english-proficient teachers, and perhaps even mandating a school nickname.

But hey, it all turns into a crapshoot when it goes to court.