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The Sicatoka

Conference Realignments - Take 2

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23 hours ago, Yote 53 said:

One could say that right now the process of trimming the fat is happening.  Take the 4 Dakotas and Denver (Summit) and join them with the Montanas, Idaho, EWU, and one more (UNC?) and it would be the perfect conference.

Then the debate will be where to hold the Summit League Tournament.  Sioux Falls will be seen as too favorable to SDSU and USD, but it would still get tremendous support.  Simple answer is to move it a little further west and make it more centrally located.  Rapid City would make a great host city and provide a lot of other entertainment options too.

Now that we have this all figured out for Douple, etc. it's up to them to make it happen.

Sorry Yote, this just makes too much sense so it probably won't happen.

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Yote 53   
9 hours ago, SanDakotaState said:

There is no way in hell that the tournament will be moved to Rapid City unless they build a new arena and they put together a better proposal than Sioux Falls. The Rushmore Plaza Civic Center is a terrible venue and is not up to par for a D1 conference tournament. The SLT makes tons of money and is one of the best conference tournaments in all of the NCAA. Why fix it if it isn't broken? The coaches might not like it but i bet the players love playing in front of a crowd instead of an empty gym like they are used to. 

http://thesummitleague.org/sports/mbkb/2017-18/releases/20170809otp507

 

BTW, I have no clue why everyone is hating on Douple. Just because he doesn't say anything in the media doesn't mean that isn't out looking for other members. In my opinion the the league has improved every year since he became commissioner in 2004. I don't care that schools are leaving (like IUPUI for example). He is bringing in new schools that the fit the region better like when he brought in Denver and UNO (they aren't leaving anytime soon- just a hunch).  Hopefully Fort Wayne leaves once Douple finds a school to replace them with. 

SDSU fans are very protective of their "precious", the SLT in Sioux Falls.  Fact is if we could ever manage to put together a conference with the Montanas, etc. the SLT in SF would be gone on an annual basis.  It would either become a rotating tournament or we would have to settle on one central destination, hence my suggestion of Rapid City.  The Rushmore Plaza can hold 10,000, it would serve just fine as a tournament home.

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That was my great concern with this move when President Kennedy felt it was necessary to move to The Summit.   While the Big Sky may have had it's travel issues, especially for UND, it did have a bunch of schools that really have no plans to go anywhere and that creates a substantial known conference schedule year in and year out.   Apologize to Sioux Volley,  but I remain unconvinced that the Montana schools have any interest in going elsewhere.  They and their fans enjoy being the big bad bullies on the block and many years, and in many sports, they have been just that.   Having visited with some of their fans this year- they conveyed, they have little to no interest in central time zone games.  Now the Presidents who are the decision makers, how do they feel?  I couldn't begin to guess, but I have to believe it can't be all that dissimilar to their fans thoughts.  

And that brings us back to this move into the Summit.  While I look forward to renewing regular games with the teams we have so much history with,  how can it be anything but concerning when it seems apparent that so many are trying to get off the ship? As a basketball fan, if the Summit ends up as a 8 or 7 team conference,  how does a 14 or even more horrifying 12 game conference schedule sound.  Let's be honest, very few schools are knocking down our door to play a game at the Betty in non-conference to play us to begin with.   You can say that we can get the Montana's but I don't believe that will happen.  They can look west for non-conference games from  where they recruit from.   My belief is once we make the move to the Summit, we won't be seeing any of the former Big Sky schools at The Betty anytime soon with maybe the exception of Northern Colorado.  And depending how many teams are left in the Summit when we arrive.... expect to see our Fighting Hawks at home very little before January, because most of the non-conference opportunities will be for road games only, unless somebody plants a money tree outside The Betty where we can start paying teams to visit.  That bothers me as a season ticket holder, I would like to see our team a little bit before the conference season and have at least a couple of games in my season ticket packet be decent match ups before The Summit League conference season begins.   

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6 hours ago, Yote 53 said:

SDSU fans are very protective of their "precious", the SLT in Sioux Falls.  Fact is if we could ever manage to put together a conference with the Montanas, etc. the SLT in SF would be gone on an annual basis.  It would either become a rotating tournament or we would have to settle on one central destination, hence my suggestion of Rapid City.  The Rushmore Plaza can hold 10,000, it would serve just fine as a tournament home.

The Rushmore would need to be blown up and re-built. It is an absolutely terrible venue. That said, sure, could it host? Well, better then Reno, at least it would be filled with mostly SDSU fans. FYI, I see the Summit announced the SLT finished first in mid-major attendance and seventh overall behind only P5 and the Big East. 

http://thesummitleague.org/sports/mbkb/2017-18/releases/20170809otp507

Oh, the Montana's are not coming our way. A lot of you really need to get over that idea. It is not going to happen.

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4 hours ago, the green team said:

That was my great concern with this move when President Kennedy felt it was necessary to move to The Summit.   While the Big Sky may have had it's travel issues, especially for UND, it did have a bunch of schools that really have no plans to go anywhere and that creates a substantial known conference schedule year in and year out.   Apologize to Sioux Volley,  but I remain unconvinced that the Montana schools have any interest in going elsewhere.  They and their fans enjoy being the big bad bullies on the block and many years, and in many sports, they have been just that.   Having visited with some of their fans this year- they conveyed, they have little to no interest in central time zone games.  Now the Presidents who are the decision makers, how do they feel?  I couldn't begin to guess, but I have to believe it can't be all that dissimilar to their fans thoughts.  

And that brings us back to this move into the Summit.  While I look forward to renewing regular games with the teams we have so much history with,  how can it be anything but concerning when it seems apparent that so many are trying to get off the ship? As a basketball fan, if the Summit ends up as a 8 or 7 team conference,  how does a 14 or even more horrifying 12 game conference schedule sound.  Let's be honest, very few schools are knocking down our door to play a game at the Betty in non-conference to play us to begin with.   You can say that we can get the Montana's but I don't believe that will happen.  They can look west for non-conference games from  where they recruit from.   My belief is once we make the move to the Summit, we won't be seeing any of the former Big Sky schools at The Betty anytime soon with maybe the exception of Northern Colorado.  And depending how many teams are left in the Summit when we arrive.... expect to see our Fighting Hawks at home very little before January, because most of the non-conference opportunities will be for road games only, unless somebody plants a money tree outside The Betty where we can start paying teams to visit.  That bothers me as a season ticket holder, I would like to see our team a little bit before the conference season and have at least a couple of games in my season ticket packet be decent match ups before The Summit League conference season begins.   

Both SDSU and USD have done a lot of home and home series with BSC schools. Why would UND not do the same? Also, most mid-majors don't spend a lot of time at home in late November and through December, that is if you want to improve your RPI and actually make a tournament. If you aren't home in January there is a bigger issue since league play begins in January.

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22 minutes ago, jacksfan29 said:

Both SDSU and USD have done a lot of home and home series with BSC schools. Why would UND not do the same? Also, most mid-majors don't spend a lot of time at home in late November and through December, that is if you want to improve your RPI and actually make a tournament. If you aren't home in January there is a bigger issue since league play begins in January.

If the league schedule is only 12 or 14 because of a 7 or 8 team league--- it might as well start in mid January for that matter. Yes, I'm concerned with trying to schedule non-conference games with BSC schools and any schools for that matter.  Heck the Jackrabbits have turned down coming here for not only last year but for several years now.  Even though from my understanding both staffs get along fairly well- Nagy/Jones & Otzelberger/Jones.  So if we can't even get the Jackrabbits to venture up I-29 for a home & home what makes you think we'll get a Weber State when they can schedule a bus ride to or from Logan, or Orem or Provo etc.?

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38 minutes ago, jacksfan29 said:

Both SDSU and USD have done a lot of home and home series with BSC schools. Why would UND not do the same? Also, most mid-majors don't spend a lot of time at home in late November and through December, that is if you want to improve your RPI and actually make a tournament. If you aren't home in January there is a bigger issue since league play begins in January.

I don't think you're familiar with how difficult it has been for UND to schedule non-conference home games in MBB.  Even 1 or 2 decent ones.  I'm not saying we have to be Kansas where the only time they leave the Phog is to play in Maui and MSG.  But 1 or 2 decent non-conference home games would be appreciated by our fans and right now it's looking like The Summit is going to be significantly smaller by the time we arrive, which only stresses our ability to schedule non-conference in the future.   Perhaps The Summit won't hemorrhage as many teams as I think  and I will be pleasantly surprised.  But I don't get that feeling right now. 

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2 hours ago, jacksfan29 said:

The Rushmore would need to be blown up and re-built. It is an absolutely terrible venue. That said, sure, could it host? Well, better then Reno, at least it would be filled with mostly SDSU fans. FYI, I see the Summit announced the SLT finished first in mid-major attendance and seventh overall behind only P5 and the Big East. 

http://thesummitleague.org/sports/mbkb/2017-18/releases/20170809otp507

Oh, the Montana's are not coming our way. A lot of you really need to get over that idea. It is not going to happen.

You've gone on record elsewhere that there will be no more moves out of the Summit.  We supposed to believe that IPFW is perfectly happy as an eastern island, Western Illinois doesn't have a budget problem and doesn't have complaints about Summit air travel, ORU simply loves the Summit and Sioux Falls, Omaha isn't seriously considered by anyone although they got an MVC official visit, and UND is so strung up for cash that we needed to move out of the Big Sky to cut down on air travel.  Sioux Falls just makes the Summit schools tinkle with joy, as witnessed by IUPUI making Dakota tournament jokes at their Horizon invitation party.  The Horizon and MVC wont go beyond 10 in spite of Presidents, AD's and Commissioners stating the opposite.  Your so convincing.:blink:

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On 8/11/2017 at 3:29 PM, jacksfan29 said:

The Rushmore would need to be blown up and re-built. It is an absolutely terrible venue. That said, sure, could it host? Well, better then Reno, at least it would be filled with mostly SDSU fans. FYI, I see the Summit announced the SLT finished first in mid-major attendance and seventh overall behind only P5 and the Big East. 

http://thesummitleague.org/sports/mbkb/2017-18/releases/20170809otp507

Oh, the Montana's are not coming our way. A lot of you really need to get over that idea. It is not going to happen.

Sioux Falls does a great job with the tourney. Hope it stays for a while.

The Summit is just too unstable, something is bound to change again.  Some kind of merger with Summit and MVFC could stablize things, or Summit starts FB.

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19 hours ago, BarnWinterSportsEngelstad said:

Sioux Falls does a great job with the tourney. Hope it stays for a while.

The Summit is just too unstable, something is bound to change again.  Some kind of merger with Summit and MVFC could stablize things, or Summit starts FB.

It rarely makes sense to merge conferences - as an autobid would be lost and no certainty in gaining  an at-large bid.

But that said, the calender is counting down on the MVC's dance credits, mostly from Wichita St.  In three or four years, those credits could be the same if the MVC becomes a one bid league and the Summit survives.

The MVC wouldn't want to go to 12 unless there are other reason for it, as the share of dance revenue get more diluted.  But with Wichita St forfeiting it's future MVC credits to the league, and new teams possibly not getting a full sure til later, for three or four years it could add to 12 without pain.  The A10 schools that created the credit gets like 60% of their credits, with the league dispersing the rest of it.  That kind of system may lead to more incentives to succeed and expand.

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1 hour ago, SiouxVolley said:

It rarely makes sense to merge conferences - as an autobid would be lost and no certainty in gaining  an at-large bid.

But that said, the calender is counting down on the MVC's dance credits, mostly from Wichita St.  In three or four years, those credits could be the same if the MVC becomes a one bid league and the Summit survives.

The MVC wouldn't want to go to 12 unless there are other reason for it, as the share of dance revenue get more diluted.  But with Wichita St forfeiting it's future MVC credits to the league, and new teams possibly not getting a full sure til later, for three or four years it could add to 12 without pain.  The A10 schools that created the credit gets like 60% of their credits, with the league dispersing the rest of it.  That kind of system may lead to more incentives to succeed and expand.

Summit and MVFC merging, how would an auto bid be lost? MVFC only has FB. Or, if Summit started FB?

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8 minutes ago, BarnWinterSportsEngelstad said:

Summit and MVFC merging, how would an auto bid be lost? MVFC only has FB. Or, if Summit started FB?

The MVFC already includes the Summit for fb.  A split would be more appropriate, but there needs to be more schools for that to happen and there is no money involved like the dance money

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Yote 53   

Football drives the bus on conference re-alignment at the FBS level.  At the FCS level it is basketball and the NCAA tournament access that drives re-alignment.  The Summit and MVC or the Summit and BSC or the Summit and WAC are not going to merge because that would result in the loss of an autobid to the NCAA BB tournament.  The Summit is going to become one of two things, a strong conference with the Dakota 4 as the backbone leading the conference, or a group of cast-offs that limps along with the Dakota 4 stuck in the middle of the crapfest.  I don't see the Summit surviving without the Dakota 4.

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If IPFW and WIU bail look for UND, NDSU, USD, SDSU to try to convince UM, MSU, ID and IDS to join. The Summit could sponsor FB and with the new precedent set by Liberty's conference invite waiver the possibility of FBS would be very real. If that happened and NMSU joined it would be one of the better G5 conferences instantly and a pretty good mid major BB conference too. Not to mention that's 9 impressive academic state schools!

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Herd   
On 8/15/2017 at 1:05 PM, North Dakota said:

If IPFW and WIU bail look for UND, NDSU, USD, SDSU to try to convince UM, MSU, ID and IDS to join. The Summit could sponsor FB and with the new precedent set by Liberty's conference invite waiver the possibility of FBS would be very real. If that happened and NMSU joined it would be one of the better G5 conferences instantly and a pretty good mid major BB conference too. Not to mention that's 9 impressive academic state schools!

Liberty has a waiver to go FBS.  They do not have a Waiver to start a new FBS conference.   If 8 FCS teams joined NMSU in the WAC and declared an FBS move, it would be a big IF on whether an FBS WAC would be allowed or not.

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1 hour ago, Herd said:

Liberty has a waiver to go FBS.  They do not have a Waiver to start a new FBS conference.   If 8 FCS teams joined NMSU in the WAC and declared an FBS move, it would be a big IF on whether an FBS WAC would be allowed or not.

Since we're in the "if" world ... 

If 8 random FCS schools each got waivers to go FBS and formed (or just happened to be in) a conference ... 

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On 8/15/2017 at 1:05 PM, North Dakota said:

If IPFW and WIU bail look for UND, NDSU, USD, SDSU to try to convince UM, MSU, ID and IDS to join. The Summit could sponsor FB and with the new precedent set by Liberty's conference invite waiver the possibility of FBS would be very real. If that happened and NMSU joined it would be one of the better G5 conferences instantly and a pretty good mid major BB conference too. Not to mention that's 9 impressive academic state schools!

idaho state? no thanks.

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49 minutes ago, SIOUXFAN97 said:

idaho state? no thanks.

Lol you do realize we are already in the same conference right?

 

2 hours ago, Herd said:

Liberty has a waiver to go FBS.  They do not have a Waiver to start a new FBS conference.   If 8 FCS teams joined NMSU in the WAC and declared an FBS move, it would be a big IF on whether an FBS WAC would be allowed or not.

There's nothing stopping 8 FCS schools from seeking a waiver to go FBS separately. Once they are FBS they can have a scheduling alliance, some could call it a conference...;)

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7 minutes ago, North Dakota said:

Lol you do realize we are already in the same conference right?

 

There's nothing stopping 8 FCS schools from seeking a waiver to go FBS separately. Once they are FBS they can have a scheduling alliance, some could call it a conference...;)

Idaho St can barely fund a low level FCS program.

If a conference has eight transitioning FBS schools, the NCAA has no choice under its own rules but to declare it an FBS conference when all have completed the transition.

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18 minutes ago, SiouxVolley said:

If a conference has eight transitioning FBS schools, the NCAA has no choice under its own rules but to declare it an FBS conference when all have completed the transition.

... or change its rules arbitrarily and capriciously. ;) 

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1 hour ago, geaux_sioux said:

FBS would be a huge mistake. 

And UND hockey would be in the WCHA today if not for a major gift.  We need a major gift of an on-campus stadium to even contemplate FBS.  UND has much more going for it than Ball St, Bowling Green, EMU, Akron, Kent St, La-Monroe, USA, Coastal Carolina, Troy, Appalachian St, Georgia Southern and others that are FBS.  What we need is a stadium on-campus, as then FBS becomes a major advertising tool that we don't currently have.

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