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The Sicatoka

Conference Realignments - Take 2

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21 minutes ago, Gothmog said:

Don't throw stones:

UND's conference affiliation since 2008 (IIRC)

IN:
Great West
Big Sky
NCHC
WAC (Affiliate)
Summit (2018)
MVFC (2019)

OUT:
NCC
Great West
WCHA
WAC (Affiliate)
Big Sky (2018)

 

 

Nice comparison. Real smart.

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Gothmog   
12 minutes ago, UNDBIZ said:

So we're leaving one legitimate conference. 

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You're kinda missing that the NCC, Great West, and WCHA imploded at least partly because of UND's actions. You don't have clean hands.

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Gothmog   
19 minutes ago, UNDvince97-01 said:

Nice comparison. Real smart.

You really don't think that it's a bit hypocritical to complain about others doing exactly what you've been doing? Pretty much every conference you've been a member of for the last ten years has been unstable.

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29 minutes ago, Gothmog said:

You're kinda missing that the NCC, Great West, and WCHA imploded at least partly because of UND's actions. You don't have clean hands.

You mean because Minnesota and Wisconsin decided to leave the conference? If the shoe were on the other foot you would have done the exact same thing. 

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17 minutes ago, Gothmog said:

Pretty much every conference you've been a member of for the last ten years has been unstable.

Summit and MVFC included? ;) 

The Great West was as stable as the San Andreas Fault from Day 1. The WAC was destabilized long before UND became an affiliate. 
 

The conference UND co-founded, the NCHC, is so rock solid it is able to turn down a Power 5 school trying to get in (Arizona State). 

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An article out of Eastern Illinois that states the OVC better get more teams, as Murray St is likely gone to the MVC and Jax St and E Kentucky want FBS bad and could just declare FBS as Liberty has done.  An OVC call for Western Illinois, which will become the eastern extreme of the Summit?

http://jg-tc.com/sports/local/ovc-has-some-work-to-do/article_160593ae-2eed-5a42-a6af-466050246737.html

An OVC could replenish with for it a powerful football program again with a derelict mbb one, matching EIU and traveling with SIU-E.  Best of all for cash strapped W Ill, the OVC is a bus conference, no plane trips to the Dakotas or Denver, and a short bus ride trip to Evansville or Nashville for the OVC tournament.  

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UNDBIZ   
2 hours ago, Gothmog said:

You really don't think that it's a bit hypocritical to complain about others doing exactly what you've been doing? Pretty much every conference you've been a member of for the last ten years has been unstable.

Who's complaining about the eastern schools looking to better their situation? The complaint is that we're joining an unstable revolving door conference. The Big Sky and NCHC are stable. 

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I would hope that the Horizon can make their moves sooner rather than later because I would think the Summit would like to get another team in at the same time UND is going in for 2018-19.

Lets say for the sake of argument that for whatever reason, IFPW decides to hang tight and stay in the Summit.   Does that mean the likelihood that they just target old soulmate UMKC and call it good for now increase? 

 

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45 minutes ago, SWSiouxMN said:

I would hope that the Horizon can make their moves sooner rather than later because I would think the Summit would like to get another team in at the same time UND is going in for 2018-19.

Lets say for the sake of argument that for whatever reason, IFPW decides to hang tight and stay in the Summit.   Does that mean the likelihood that they just target old soulmate UMKC and call it good for now increase? 

 

Don't think UMKC wants to associate with Dakota schools, which is why they left for the WAC.  Conference affiliation with a bunch of Dakotas is looked at very negatively, as we don't have tv sets in numbers or great recruiting. UMKC doesn't see a need to broaden it's awaredness in the Dakotas.  Hockey is an exception, which is why Denver stays in the near term.

These are the moves coming up, ImHO.

MVC takes Murray St and ORU.

Horizon takes IPFW and Robert Morris.

OVC takes W Illinois and S Indiana or Lindenwood from DII.

Later, the Horizon takes Omaha and UMKC.

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On 8/8/2017 at 5:28 PM, Gothmog said:

You really don't think that it's a bit hypocritical to complain about others doing exactly what you've been doing? Pretty much every conference you've been a member of for the last ten years has been unstable.

At least we have never been part of a conference that had a shot at losing an auto bid like the SL did. We bring stability to the revolving door conference next year. 

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32 minutes ago, darell1976 said:

At least we have never been part of a conference that had a shot at losing an auto bid like the SL did. We bring stability to the revolving door conference next year. 

You are literally joining a conference that will likely need to get creative again in a year or two. Sorry to burst your bubble. 

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17 minutes ago, JohnboyND7 said:

You are literally joining a conference that will likely need to get creative again in a year or two. Sorry to burst your bubble. 

With the addition of UND the shift is definately towards I-29 and away from Indiana. Unless the MVC implodes and poaches the Summit League, I think we are going to make the conference the most stabilized it's been since the SU's joined.

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zonadub   
6 minutes ago, darell1976 said:

With the addition of UND the shift is definately towards I-29 and away from Indiana. Unless the MVC implodes and poaches the Summit League, I think we are going to make the conference the most stabilized it's been since the SU's joined.

Sorry Darrell, have to ask what is stable about a 5 team conference?

 

2 hours ago, SiouxVolley said:

Don't think UMKC wants to associate with Dakota schools, which is why they left for the WAC.  Conference affiliation with a bunch of Dakotas is looked at very negatively, as we don't have tv sets in numbers or great recruiting. UMKC doesn't see a need to broaden it's awaredness in the Dakotas.  Hockey is an exception, which is why Denver stays in the near term.

These are the moves coming up, ImHO.

MVC takes Murray St and ORU.

Horizon takes IPFW and Robert Morris.

OVC takes W Illinois and S Indiana or Lindenwood from DII.

Later, the Horizon takes Omaha and UMKC.

Leaves the 4 Dakotas and Denver

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37 minutes ago, zonadub said:

Sorry Darrell, have to ask what is stable about a 5 team conference?

 

Leaves the 4 Dakotas and Denver

It's stable as long as SV's honest opinion doesn't come true, in the latest history of the NCAA's musical chairs of conference moving might. Who knows after we join the SL we could be invited to another conference.

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Rick   

Kennedy better know what's going to happen.  Otherwise, leaving a great conference like the Big Sky with like-minded schools Montana, Montana State, Idaho, EWU, NAU, Cal Poly & UC-Davis makes no sense. 

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10 hours ago, Rick said:

Kennedy better know what's going to happen.  Otherwise, leaving a great conference like the Big Sky with like-minded schools Montana, Montana State, Idaho, EWU, NAU, Cal Poly & UC-Davis makes no sense. 

Dang. I just agreed with Rick. ;):D 

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Yote 53   
12 hours ago, SiouxVolley said:

Kennedy knows precisely what will happen IMHO.  The Montanas, Idaho and EWU will join, and any eastern Summit teams that are left will have more reason to depart.

One could say that right now the process of trimming the fat is happening.  Take the 4 Dakotas and Denver (Summit) and join them with the Montanas, Idaho, EWU, and one more (UNC?) and it would be the perfect conference.

Then the debate will be where to hold the Summit League Tournament.  Sioux Falls will be seen as too favorable to SDSU and USD, but it would still get tremendous support.  Simple answer is to move it a little further west and make it more centrally located.  Rapid City would make a great host city and provide a lot of other entertainment options too.

Now that we have this all figured out for Douple, etc. it's up to them to make it happen.

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jdub27   
11 hours ago, Rick said:

Kennedy better know what's going to happen.  Otherwise, leaving a great conference like the Big Sky with like-minded schools Montana, Montana State, Idaho, EWU, NAU, Cal Poly & UC-Davis makes no sense. 

Not exactly sure what Kennedy does or doesn't know, but in terms of costs, the move made a ton of sense, especially with the huge budget slashes coming down from the state.

I'd argue UND's only true peers in the Big Sky are UM, MSU and Idaho. Tough to count Cal-Poly and UC-Davis when they are affiliate members for football only. 

UND has just as many, if not more, like-minded schools in the Summit with NDSU, SDSU, USD and Denver.

This isn't an argument that the Big Sky doesn't have some advantages over the Summit **coughstabilitycough** but there are definite reasons for both. Since the decision has been made, hopefully UND can help be part of the solution that stops the revolving door in and out of the Summit.

 

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2 hours ago, Yote 53 said:

One could say that right now the process of trimming the fat is happening.  Take the 4 Dakotas and Denver (Summit) and join them with the Montanas, Idaho, EWU, and one more (UNC?) and it would be the perfect conference.

Then the debate will be where to hold the Summit League Tournament.  Sioux Falls will be seen as too favorable to SDSU and USD, but it would still get tremendous support.  Simple answer is to move it a little further west and make it more centrally located.  Rapid City would make a great host city and provide a lot of other entertainment options too.

Now that we have this all figured out for Douple, etc. it's up to them to make it happen.

I'd argue that Douple is gone no matter what.  Douple has always seemed clueless.

The tournament will probably be moved around to Billings, Spokane, Bismarck and Sioux Falls, with the women and men being separate as a condition of the western teams being added.

Taking four Big Sky teams wouldn't destroy that conference but taking five could.  The Montanas and Idaho won't allow that.

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On 8/9/2017 at 4:32 PM, SWSiouxMN said:

I would hope that the Horizon can make their moves sooner rather than later because I would think the Summit would like to get another team in at the same time UND is going in for 2018-19.

Lets say for the sake of argument that for whatever reason, IFPW decides to hang tight and stay in the Summit.   Does that mean the likelihood that they just target old soulmate UMKC and call it good for now increase? 

 

Should add that IPFW debated moving back to DII when it splits into PUFW and a much smaller IUFW.  PUFW decided on DI in part because Fort Wayne will sport a new arena downtown that should be available by 2019.  The  Horizon takes kindly to new and renovated arenas, as witnessed by them just adding IUPUI and NKU.  If PUFW thought it be stuck in the Summit, it would have dropped to DII.  PUFW and Robert Morris move into new digs almost at the same time, which gets the Horizon's attention. The Horizon has always been a dream for eastern Summit schools, like Oakland, IUPUI, Valpo, and Green Bay, Milwaukee, Wright St, Cleveland  St before them.  The only schools not to make it are E Ill, W Ill, and Chicago St, which have no proven basketball roots.

Any Big Sky school move to the Summit will be one years notice for Olympics and two years for football for no exit fees.  Otherwise, there would be a big cost.

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12 hours ago, Yote 53 said:

One could say that right now the process of trimming the fat is happening.  Take the 4 Dakotas and Denver (Summit) and join them with the Montanas, Idaho, EWU, and one more (UNC?) and it would be the perfect conference.

Then the debate will be where to hold the Summit League Tournament.  Sioux Falls will be seen as too favorable to SDSU and USD, but it would still get tremendous support.  Simple answer is to move it a little further west and make it more centrally located.  Rapid City would make a great host city and provide a lot of other entertainment options too.

Now that we have this all figured out for Douple, etc. it's up to them to make it happen.

There is no way in hell that the tournament will be moved to Rapid City unless they build a new arena and they put together a better proposal than Sioux Falls. The Rushmore Plaza Civic Center is a terrible venue and is not up to par for a D1 conference tournament. The SLT makes tons of money and is one of the best conference tournaments in all of the NCAA. Why fix it if it isn't broken? The coaches might not like it but i bet the players love playing in front of a crowd instead of an empty gym like they are used to. 

http://thesummitleague.org/sports/mbkb/2017-18/releases/20170809otp507

 

BTW, I have no clue why everyone is hating on Douple. Just because he doesn't say anything in the media doesn't mean that isn't out looking for other members. In my opinion the the league has improved every year since he became commissioner in 2004. I don't care that schools are leaving (like IUPUI for example). He is bringing in new schools that the fit the region better like when he brought in Denver and UNO (they aren't leaving anytime soon- just a hunch).  Hopefully Fort Wayne leaves once Douple finds a school to replace them with. 

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jdub27   
14 hours ago, SiouxVolley said:

Any Big Sky school move to the Summit will be one years notice for Olympics and two years for football for no exit fees.  Otherwise, there would be a big cost.

I've already shown that this isn't true. There is no distinction between exit periods for Olympic sports and football in the by-laws. UND is fully leaving the conference in all sports at the same time, however they are keeping a "scheduling alliance" for football in the interim until they move into the MVFC.

 

9 hours ago, SanDakotaState said:

BTW, I have no clue why everyone is hating on Douple.

Lack of vision for starters.

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