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The Sicatoka

Conference Realignments - Take 2

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5 hours ago, zonadub said:

So this is a stupid question, but I gotta ask...

does UND joining the Summit/MVFC make NDSU more or less likely to seek FBS status?

Not happening in near future without a huge donation. There are the financial challenges to start, and how do you maintain a FBS program that looses $M's every year?  Plus they have to be invited?

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2 hours ago, BarnWinterSportsEngelstad said:

Not happening in near future without a huge donation. There are the financial challenges to start, and how do you maintain a FBS program that looses $M's every year?  Plus they have to be invited?

They made fun of travel for us being in the Big Sky can you imagine the travel in the Sun Belt? Fargo to Jonesboro, AR is 986 miles. Not an ideal travel partner.

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4 hours ago, jacksfan29 said:

I'll answer from an outside perspective.

Even if they had the money NDSU has no place to go. They will not join as an Independent. The Sun Belt is now a regional conference who like their current footprint. Much like Idaho, NDSU is way outside of that footprint. The MWC wants nothing to do with FCS move ups. They want UTEP, Rice or UT San Antonio. Even NMSU have a better shot at the MWC than does NDSU. They would be 5th in line for the MAC. James Madison, Youngstown, UNI, Illinois State would be the top 4 FCS schools the MAC would show interest in.

JMU and YSU have both discussed FBS in the past. UNI has ties to the MAC, plus the MAC is still a BB conference first and UNI is a BB school. Illinois State have mentioned FBS before though budget issues in Illinois will hold them back.

No matter what you read on BV, NDSU has no conference to move to. End of story. Your rival to the south is not going anywhere anytime soon. 

Would you say the same about SDSU?

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1 hour ago, zonadub said:

Would you say the same about SDSU?

Yes. The only real option for SDSU would be the MVC and a non-Wichita MVC is not really a step up. WSU leaves and expect UNI and Illinois State, and possibly Indiana State to begin searching for a new league. Amazing as it sounds, with the addition of UND the Summit is more stable right now than the MVC.

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1 minute ago, jacksfan29 said:

Yes. The only real option for SDSU would be the MVC and a non-Wichita MVC is not really a step up. WSU leaves and expect UNI and Illinois State, and possibly Indiana State to begin searching for a new league. Amazing as it sounds, with the addition of UND the Summit is more stable right now than the MVC.

Thank you for your insights jacksfan29

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1 hour ago, jacksfan29 said:

Yes. The only real option for SDSU would be the MVC and a non-Wichita MVC is not really a step up. WSU leaves and expect UNI and Illinois State, and possibly Indiana State to begin searching for a new league. Amazing as it sounds, with the addition of UND the Summit is more stable right now than the MVC.

Would rather have the old NCC back than be in the Slummit.

This is the lineup:

UND

NDSU

SDSU

USD

Omaha

Drake

UNI

UMKC

Denver

ORU

 

The MVC can have IPFW, IUPUI, and W Ill.

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the longer ASU goes without officially being accepted to some hockey conference leads me to believe that they/everyone knows that there will be some major shakeup somewhere and will wait it out...like UND to the Big10 starting a whole bunch of dominos falling all across the college hockey landscape?

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54 minutes ago, SIOUXFAN97 said:

the longer ASU goes without officially being accepted to some hockey conference leads me to believe that they/everyone knows that there will be some major shakeup somewhere and will wait it out...like UND to the Big10 starting a whole bunch of dominos falling all across the college hockey landscape?

ASU has an effective standing invite to the WCHA, but wants something better with the NCHC.  But it needs access to the NCAA Tournament to allay recruiting issues and get crowds when it plays in Gila River.  Some arena  plans need to be announced soon, so if UND gets a B1G spot, ASU can slide in.  Without an arena, Mankato gets in the NCHC when UND leaves.  If UNLV announces DI soon, that can change the dynamics.

 

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2 hours ago, SiouxVolley said:

ASU has an effective standing invite to the WCHA, but wants something better with the NCHC.  But it needs access to the NCAA Tournament to allay recruiting issues and get crowds when it plays in Gila River.  Some arena  plans need to be announced soon, so if UND gets a B1G spot, ASU can slide in.  Without an arena, Mankato gets in the NCHC when UND leaves.  If UNLV announces DI soon, that can change the dynamics.

Three points:

1) UND ain't going anywhere. Leaving a conference made up of institutions where hockey is a priority sport for a conference that treats hockey like a red-headed stepchild is just plain dumb.

2) The NCHC is not going to add members. If it does, it risks becoming bloated and watered down. Eight teams is a nice, round number. Let's keep it that way.

3) Arizona St. is better off in the WCHA. In the WCHA, the Sun Devils can build their program and not get the crap beat out of them every weekend. Also, we are not sure the level of commitment that ASU will put towards their hockey program. That is one of the hallmarks of the NCHC.

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1 hour ago, fightingsioux4life said:

Three points:

1) UND ain't going anywhere. Leaving a conference made up of institutions where hockey is a priority sport for a conference that treats hockey like a red-headed stepchild is just plain dumb.

2) The NCHC is not going to add members. If it does, it risks becoming bloated and watered down. Eight teams is a nice, round number. Let's keep it that way.

3) Arizona St. is better off in the WCHA. In the WCHA, the Sun Devils can build their program and not get the crap beat out of them every weekend. Also, we are not sure the level of commitment that ASU will put towards their hockey program. That is one of the hallmarks of the NCHC.

One of the points in going West with the Big Sky was to show potential hockey schools out west, like with PAC12 schools, that we would welcome them.  That was one reason that UND was so willing to travel out west and very much supported by Hakstol, who called the move critical.  If more P5 schools add hockey no matter where, UND wins, especially if they are in our playground. Kennedy changed our playground, which indicates B1G hockey is in our future.   Academically, a move to the B1G is a grand slam, even if only in perceptions.

The idea that Ariz St wants the WCHA is a complete joke.  It's a mostly DII conference with small schools most ASU alumni and students don't have a clue even exist.  ASU would be better off staying club than going WCHA.  BGSU doesn't want it either, and the travel for them isn't bad.

When ASU gets a decent rink and if UNLV starts hockey, they will both be NCHC schools.

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8 hours ago, SiouxVolley said:

One of the points in going West with the Big Sky was to show potential hockey schools out west, like with PAC12 schools, that we would welcome them.

No. It was to join the only conference that gave UND a home for both its Olympic sports and football. There were absolutely no other options on the table at the time that provided that security.

 

8 hours ago, SiouxVolley said:

Kennedy changed our playground, which indicates B1G hockey is in our future.  

No. The situation changed because the Summit members in the MVFC realized they were better off overall by stabilizing the Summit and getting it to 10 members, despite it actually being a overall negative for the MVFC, making scheduling even more unbalanced. The option came at a time where UND was looking to cut costs, even though it has been an on and off conversation since UND has moved to D-1. This move has absolutely zero to do with B1G hockey.

 

8 hours ago, SiouxVolley said:

The idea that Ariz St wants the WCHA is a complete joke.  It's a mostly DII conference with small schools most ASU alumni and students don't have a clue even exist.  ASU would be better off staying club than going WCHA.  BGSU doesn't want it either, and the travel for them isn't bad.

When ASU gets a decent rink and if UNLV starts hockey, they will both be NCHC schools.

Of course ASU would prefer the B1G or NCHC over the WCHA, unfortunately it has no leverage at this point in time, especially as they continue to drag their feet on the arena issue. All three conferences have had lengthy discussions about ASU and the main reason why they haven't got an invite from the two they prefer is incredibly obvious. Even once that is figured out, there will still be a lot of discussion on what is best for each conference going forward and nothing is guaranteed.

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1 hour ago, jdub27 said:

No. It was to join the only conference that gave UND a home for both its Olympic sports and football. There were absolutely no other options on the table at the time that provided that security.

 

No. The situation changed because the Summit members in the MVFC realized they were better off overall by stabilizing the Summit and getting it to 10 members, despite it actually being a overall negative for the MVFC, making scheduling even more unbalanced. The option came at a time where UND was looking to cut costs, even though it has been an on and off conversation since UND has moved to D-1. This move has absolutely zero to do with B1G hockey.

 

Of course ASU would prefer the B1G or NCHC over the WCHA, unfortunately it has no leverage at this point in time, especially as they continue to drag their feet on the arena issue. All three conferences have had lengthy discussions about ASU and the main reason why they haven't got an invite from the two they prefer is incredibly obvious. Even once that is figured out, there will still be a lot of discussion on what is best for each conference going forward and nothing is guaranteed.

UND actually had interest from the Southland for football, as the Southland had lost schools and had invited DII's.  Faison talked about that.  But the Southland would have been the death of UND fball, as there would be little interest in playing in Texas, LA and Ark constantly.  A Slummit Southland combo was far from ideal.

Gene Taylor and NDSU'S President led a MVFC effort to block UND from the MVFC because he wanted UND fb financially comatose.  Why else was there a refusal to schedule us?  It was finally exposed to the SBOHE and taken seriously and why NDSU had to reveal emails recently where Bresciani supported UND to MVFC presidents with carbon copies to the SBoHE, otherwise Bresciani would have been fired.  Bresciani valued his job more than he valued UND fb comatose.

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okay ill ask this question....what if ASU had a check for a 50 million 6k arena cashed and ready to go...doesn't change the fact that they aren't a "hockey" school and never will be...does the NCHC still invite them when the arena check is deposited?  

seems like some people are speaking out both sides of their mouths...

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14 minutes ago, SIOUXFAN97 said:

okay ill ask this question....what if ASU had a check for a 50 million 6k arena cashed and ready to go...doesn't change the fact that they aren't a "hockey" school and never will be...does the NCHC still invite them when the arena check is deposited?  

seems like some people are speaking out both sides of their mouths...

Penn St wasn't a hockey school, but now they get sell out raucous crowds.  The Pig Ten was silly to invite them in. :blink:

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1 minute ago, SiouxVolley said:

Penn St wasn't a hockey school, but now they get sell out raucous crowds.  The Pig Ten was silly to invite them in. :blink:

don't get me wrong...i'm all for adding ASU to the NCHC yesterday and letting them figure out the arena later!! hockey in tempe with allegient flights!! im in!

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22 minutes ago, SIOUXFAN97 said:

okay ill ask this question....what if ASU had a check for a 50 million 6k arena cashed and ready to go...doesn't change the fact that they aren't a "hockey" school and never will be...does the NCHC still invite them when the arena check is deposited?  

seems like some people are speaking out both sides of their mouths...

They don't and aren't going to, so it doesn't really matter, but in your hypothetical scenario, I don't think it guarantees them entry into the B1G or NCHC. However it does remove what continues to be brought up as by far the biggest hurdle they have. Take out that roadblock and further vetting and discussion can take place, which on the NCHC side is going to be more dominoes needing to fall because they don't want to be at an odd number, whereas the B1G is already there and it solves their problem in short order.

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1 minute ago, SIOUXFAN97 said:

don't get me wrong...i'm all for adding ASU to the NCHC yesterday and letting them figure out the arena later!! hockey in tempe with allegient flights!! im in!

It is in UND's and most hockey schools advantage to get more P5's to field a team.  More TV awareness and more money and more esteem.  That not hard to understand.  DU and CC would kill to get Ariz St in, as it conveys a message that DU and CC are big time to casual fans.

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11 hours ago, fightingsioux4life said:

3) Arizona St. is better off in the WCHA. 

Ah, but is the WCHA better off with ASU? The Alaskas have budget issues (if not being in an existential fight for life). The rest of the schools, do they want, or can they afford, another long flight road trip? 

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1 minute ago, The Sicatoka said:

Ah, but is the WCHA better off with ASU? The Alaskas have budget issues (if not being in an existential fight for life). The rest of the schools, do they want, or can they afford, another long flight road trip? 

If the WCHA can get a western division, that would limit travel for eastern schools to Alaska once a year, the WCHA would be better off.  Phoenix is so much cheaper.

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2 minutes ago, The Sicatoka said:

Ah, but is the WCHA better off with ASU? The Alaskas have budget issues (if not being in an existential fight for life). The rest of the schools, do they want, or can they afford, another long flight road trip? 

what sport or why did alaska-a build that nice arena for..primarily hockey, basketball, concerts, or both...it seems really nice and you would think that hockey would take priorty or bball that far north? but yes if and when some realignment comes you would think that the alaska schools might be left out or just shut down completely

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1 minute ago, SIOUXFAN97 said:

what sport or why did alaska-a build that nice arena for..primarily hockey, basketball, concerts, or both...it seems really nice and you would think that hockey would take priorty or bball that far north? but yes if and when some realignment comes you would think that the alaska schools might be left out or just shut down completely

Both schools athletics were threatened by the recent Alaska revenue crisis, but saved by non-government fundraising.  Alaska college hockey seems safe for now.  The Anchorage situation is far different from the Fairbanks one.  Bball won't ever be a priority as long it remains DII.

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the bottom line is what is ASU waiting for...playing an indy schedule gets them nowhere...join the wcha tomorrow...if you get your arena apply to the nchc later...you need to give your recruits some stability and a shot at the tourney....unless they know something is happening this summer/fall??????

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2 hours ago, SIOUXFAN97 said:

the bottom line is what is ASU waiting for...playing an indy schedule gets them nowhere...join the wcha tomorrow...if you get your arena apply to the nchc later...you need to give your recruits some stability and a shot at the tourney....unless they know something is happening this summer/fall??????

There has been a lot of building in their new district by all the stadiums. ASU pulling out of the Coyotes deal had to do with expanding their engineering school.

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