dmksioux Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 Then again you could call the other 98% of the schools we have scheduled over the last ten years without incident and I am sure you would get a very favorable thumbs up from them. I am sure the Big Sky schools will agree that we are a great asset as we will have a great presence at their venues in the very near future adding to their bottom line. I am sure all the teams in the WCHA are very happy to have us on the schedule as just about all of the record attendence numbers in the WCHA were generated against UND as our fans flock to their building to watch their beloved Sioux play. I am sure the WCHA is happy when we make it to the WCHA Final Five year in an year out as we, by far, bring the largest contingent to the event...last year an estimated 10,000 Sioux fans packed the Xcel Center for the championship game. So you see the doomsday scenarios you spout are not the whole truth. You state a couple of very isolated incidents by a couple of morrons at the home school and explain it is an end all, when in fact there are many universities out there that love to schedule UND...just ask the commisioner of the Big Sky and the voting members. The glass is not empty, the sky is not falling.... For starters, UND was only on the "black balled list" for a short time, so we haven't seen how scheduling may be affected. But we do know that some schools have policies stating they won't play schools on that list. Those incidents have been isolated thus far, but will it stay that way? Wisconsin fans chant "Racist Mascot" whenever the Sioux go to Madison. Do there administrators want to deal with those issues if they don't have to? Conference games, WCHA games/tournaments do not matter when it comes to being on the "black balled list." Sioux/UND fans will continue to attend those games, set records, provide a good gate etc. The games against "name" opponents/non-conference games/NCAA playoff games are what may/will be affected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oxbow6 Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 For starters, UND was only on the "black balled list" for a short time, so we haven't seen how scheduling may be affected. But we do know that some schools have policies stating they won't play schools on that list. Those incidents have been isolated thus far, but will it stay that way? Wisconsin fans chant "Racist Mascot" whenever the Sioux go to Madison. Do there administrators want to deal with those issues if they don't have to? Conference games, WCHA games/tournaments do not matter when it comes to being on the "black balled list." Sioux/UND fans will continue to attend those games, set records, provide a good gate etc. The games against "name" opponents/non-conference games/NCAA playoff games are what may/will be affected. And that's the point...IMO right now, as of today, it's not one or the other. We won't be in the playoffs anytime soon and there are and will be still "name" opponents that will schedule us in the future. I don't see why so many are predicting immediate doom to the athletic dept. for letting the nickname issue continue to work thru the process it's currently in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gfhomer Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 My biggest fear throughout all of this is that most are thinking only with their heart, not their head AND heart. Someone brought up the comparison earlier in this thread to the crazies in Georgia fighting to keep the Confederate flag on the state flag. Do we want to look like those crazies who only care about the past and will fight tooth and nail to keep our nickname/logo (for the record, I'm not comparing our nickname/logo to what the Confederate flag "stood for": the institutionalization of slavery)? I also agree that a majority of hockey-only fans are the most supportive of this bill. Just because the hockey program brings in the most money and has the most national championships (let us not forget, the football team has won a NC more recently than the hockey team), it is unwise and unfair to only think of the ramifications - if any - on the hockey program. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeftyZL Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 It may be a small amount of schools right now, or they may be some schools we don't know about that are refusing to play us because of the name. When I see the stories that came about with Dartmouth and Texas Tech, I can't help but think that as time goes by, the list of schools who won't play us will continue to grow. I could be way off base on this but I have a difficult time weighing out the pro's and con's. I love the Sioux name as most do on this board, but I would also like to see UND's athletic department be successful at the DI level. Personally, getting thrashed by schools like Idaho in both football and basketball is not ok with me. I feel we have the resources and committment to put out a product as good if not better than those types of schools but that is a different argument. If UND ends up on the NCAA's bad list, I don't see anything good happening to our athletic department. If there is a way we can keep the name and avoid that list, I'm all for it. For one, Dartmouth has its own issues with its own name still 30 years later. Wasn't the Texas Tech issue something that was pictured on their program or something to that effect? Again, as Sicatoka points out, we control what we can control. We can't be held responsible for what other schools are doing. We've got enough on our plate to deal with. For starters, UND was only on the "black balled list" for a short time, so we haven't seen how scheduling may be affected. But we do know that some schools have policies stating they won't play schools on that list. Those incidents have been isolated thus far, but will it stay that way? Wisconsin fans chant "Racist Mascot" whenever the Sioux go to Madison. Do there administrators want to deal with those issues if they don't have to? Conference games, WCHA games/tournaments do not matter when it comes to being on the "black balled list." Sioux/UND fans will continue to attend those games, set records, provide a good gate etc. The games against "name" opponents/non-conference games/NCAA playoff games are what may/will be affected. I've been to Madison for hockey and I've never heard them chant "Racist Mascot" before. Maybe I'm too busy watching the game or maybe they're just not very loud chanters. Anyways, not saying it's not happening, but was it a one-time occurence or has anyone else heard this while in Madison? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmksioux Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 For one, Dartmouth has its own issues with its own name still 30 years later. Wasn't the Texas Tech issue something that was pictured on their program or something to that effect? Again, as Sicatoka points out, we control what we can control. We can't be held responsible for what other schools are doing. We've got enough on our plate to deal with. I've been to Madison for hockey and I've never heard them chant "Racist Mascot" before. Maybe I'm too busy watching the game or maybe they're just not very loud chanters. Anyways, not saying it's not happening, but was it a one-time occurence or has anyone else heard this while in Madison? As will UND, regardless of whether we keep the nickname or not. Your are also correct that we can only control what is ours to control...same as the opponent. They are the ones who can and have (at least some of them) decided to not play UND because of a myriad of reasons. They are controlling what they can control. Texas Tech can say we won't schedule UND anymore because of the fiasco with the football program. I have been to Madison on three different occassions and have heard the chant each time. I also wore my Sioux jersey and had no issues with Bucky fans saying anything derogatory about it. It's just students being creative and having fun. I don't see any thing wrong with the chant. How their administration views it is up for debate. Will the chant continue in the future, who knows but there is a pretty decent chance that there will be more "insensitive issues" such as TT, Dartmouth, St. Cloud, Wisco, etc. that will pop up every now and then. Some administrations may take the chance it won't and will schedule us, others will pass on us and schedule someone else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ksixpack Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 Wisconsin fans chant "Racist Mascot" whenever the Sioux go to Madison. Do there administrators want to deal with those issues if they don't have to? And UND fans chant "F*%$ the Gophers" when Minnesota comes to town...do our administrators want to deal with that issue when they don't have to? Come on people... we can't control everything that happens in another arena! Every teams student section has inappropriate chants for every team that comes to town...do you really think it is just UND that gets this?...have you ever been to a game that doesn't involve UND...go check out Michigan/Ohio State football, Duke/North Carolina basketball, Red Sox/Yankees...like it or not it is part of sports culture and is not limited to just UND...good grief! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oxbow6 Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 And UND fans chant "F*%$ the Gophers" when Minnesota comes to town...do our administrators want to deal with that issue when they don't have to? Come on people... we can't control everything that happens in another arena! Every teams student section has inappropriate chants for every team that comes to town...do you really think it is just UND that gets this?...have you ever been to a game that doesn't involve UND...go check out Michigan/Ohio State football, Duke/North Carolina basketball, Red Sox/Yankees...like it or not it is part of sports culture and is not limited to just UND...good grief! Now you are just being silly! This is, unforunately, the culture we live in...those with low self-esteem need a hug, those who have been "wronged" need justice, those who are offended need... I could go on and on, but the bottom line is the Sioux nickname issue is a minority driven attempt to get "justice" and coupled with the hypocrisy of the NCAA, we've got the mess we have. Now, I can I get a hug, please... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmksioux Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 And UND fans chant "F*%$ the Gophers" when Minnesota comes to town...do our administrators want to deal with that issue when they don't have to? Come on people... we can't control everything that happens in another arena! Every teams student section has inappropriate chants for every team that comes to town...do you really think it is just UND that gets this?...have you ever been to a game that doesn't involve UND...go check out Michigan/Ohio State football, Duke/North Carolina basketball, Red Sox/Yankees...like it or not it is part of sports culture and is not limited to just UND...good grief! I'm not arguing that it doesn't happen at most any athletic event. I'm not saying I'm offended by it. There is a difference when it comes to "F the Gophers" chants and a derogatory chant towards the Sioux name. The Sioux name represents real people who can be offended. Again, I don't agree with it, but it's unfortunatley a fact of life that some people find it offensive. Personally I would tell those people who are offended to get a life and worry about more important issues. Unfortunately the minority who are offended make noise about it and go to the media and blow it all out of proportion. The fans don't make scheduling decisions, it's the administrators that do. It's my opinion that administrators would rather not deal with these issues if they don't have to as evidenced by some schools adopting policies against it. It's also my opinion, that more schools will be added to that list if "racist" or "insensitive" issues arise because their athletic department chooses to play UND. Am I happy about it, no...just trying to view it from other people/schools perspective... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siouxbooster#33 Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 I wonder when, how, and if the NCAA decides sanctions would be applied in this particular instance? I feel that there is quite a bit of fear that the NCAA will wield an ax within seconds of the law being passed. Not likely. The NCAA is an organization which has the same deliberative processes as most major, multi-million-dollar nationwide organization. I am betting -- in fact I am confident -- the NCAA will take this approach: 1. If the law passes, the NCAA will announce, "We will have to review the situation, discuss it with our compliance committee, discuss this with our legal department, and discuss this matter with the University." 2. The NCAA committee will have to review the law and ramifications. What the NCAA would look at is this: with the settlement, is this partial compliance with the settlement (Spirit Lake approval) combined with North Dakota's inability to abide by the terms of the settlement agreement (because of the shift in the law) versus viewing this as total non-compliance. My guess is a likely face-saving (and, importantly money and PR saving directive) which will table the matter for study by the compliance committee, in which time the NCAA will negotiate a tactful withdrawal from the hard line stance. 3. Tacfull withdrawal would look something like the agreement reached in Illinois, CMU, and FSU. This is what I believe, and hope, would happen. I can't believe - and really can't -- how many name supporters are worried about the sky falling on UND. The NCAA is not waiting on every vote out of North Dakota, ready to pounce, ready to spend million of dollars on protracted legal battles. The NCAA mostly wants its organization to run smoothly and without much controversy -- because problems cost money. The NCAA is not rubbing its hands together ready to "shun" UND. The NCAA will do whatever is necessary to resolve the situation. This is not Miles Brand's NCAA, which was particularly activist and confrontational in many ways. What cannot happen is to fold up tent and run for mommy when the future is cloudy. Sorry -- I can't predict the future with 100% certainty. Nobody can. I've said before, and I'll say again -- if we're too afraid to fight for the name, for what is right, than we don't desrve to be called Fighting Sioux. Bickering over football versus hockey is a waste of time and effort. Is the name hostile and abusive? Is the name used in an innapropriate manner? If not -- then we are fighthing the correct fight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ksixpack Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 I'm not arguing that it doesn't happen at most any athletic event. I'm not saying I'm offended by it. There is a difference when it comes to "F the Gophers" chants and a derogatory chant towards the Sioux name. The Sioux name represents real people who can be offended. Again, I don't agree with it, but it's unfortunatley a fact of life that some people find it offensive. Personally I would tell those people who are offended to get a life and worry about more important issues. Unfortunately the minority who are offended make noise about it and go to the media and blow it all out of proportion. The fans don't make scheduling decisions, it's the administrators that do. It's my opinion that administrators would rather not deal with these issues if they don't have to as evidenced by some schools adopting policies against it. It's also my opinion, that more schools will be added to that list if "racist" or "insensitive" issues arise because their athletic department chooses to play UND. Am I happy about it, no...just trying to view it from other people/schools perspective... It's my opinion that from the 250+ possible football teams out there that we could find 3 that would play us to fill our non-conference schedule; from the 400+ basketball teams we could find 10 to fill our non-conference schedule and the same goes for all the other sports nobody cares about...hockey is a given...every team would love to play UND... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmksioux Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 I wonder when, how, and if the NCAA decides sanctions would be applied in this particular instance? I feel that there is quite a bit of fear that the NCAA will wield an ax within seconds of the law being passed. Not likely. The NCAA is an organization which has the same deliberative processes as most major, multi-million-dollar nationwide organization. I am betting -- in fact I am confident -- the NCAA will take this approach: 1. If the law passes, the NCAA will announce, "We will have to review the situation, discuss it with our compliance committee, discuss this with our legal department, and discuss this matter with the University." 2. The NCAA committee will have to review the law and ramifications. What the NCAA would look at is this: with the settlement, is this partial compliance with the settlement (Spirit Lake approval) combined with North Dakota's inability to abide by the terms of the settlement agreement (because of the shift in the law) versus viewing this as total non-compliance. My guess is a likely face-saving (and, importantly money and PR saving directive) which will table the matter for study by the compliance committee, in which time the NCAA will negotiate a tactful withdrawal from the hard line stance. 3. Tacfull withdrawal would look something like the agreement reached in Illinois, CMU, and FSU. This is what I believe, and hope, would happen. I can't believe - and really can't -- how many name supporters are worried about the sky falling on UND. The NCAA is not waiting on every vote out of North Dakota, ready to pounce, ready to spend million of dollars on protracted legal battles. The NCAA mostly wants its organization to run smoothly and without much controversy -- because problems cost money. The NCAA is not rubbing its hands together ready to "shun" UND. The NCAA will do whatever is necessary to resolve the situation. This is not Miles Brand's NCAA, which was particularly activist and confrontational in many ways. What cannot happen is to fold up tent and run for mommy when the future is cloudy. Sorry -- I can't predict the future with 100% certainty. Nobody can. I've said before, and I'll say again -- if we're too afraid to fight for the name, for what is right, than we don't desrve to be called Fighting Sioux. Bickering over football versus hockey is a waste of time and effort. Is the name hostile and abusive? Is the name used in an innapropriate manner? If not -- then we are fighthing the correct fight. I would like to believe this is how it would play out but I have my doubts. In the eyes of the NCAA, this is already resolved (read the settlement). North Dakota can pass the nickname into law and the NCAA would be fine with it...they will just tell us to live with the sanctions and abide by the settlement. The only way I see the NCAA looking at this case is if there is some type of development at Standing Rock. Yes the SBoHE deadline has passed, but if somehow the Standing Rock Tribe were to make a move before June 1st when we officially stop using the name, then the NCAA might be willing to listen. Keep in mind I am not a lawyer nor do I pretend to be one... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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